18:44 -!- snoopy369 [snoopy369@adsl-65-42-86-121.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #apolyton
18:44 < snoopy369> lo :)
18:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
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18:52  * snoopy369 thinks it's very quiet in here ...
18:57 <@ACS_MarkG> hey snoopy
18:57 <@ACS_MarkG> i was sleeping :)
19:01 < snoopy369> lol
19:01 < snoopy369> it's what 8pm there :p
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19:05 -!- Krill [~chris@i-195-137-73-51.freedom2surf.net] has joined #Apolyton
19:05 < snoopy369> lo krill
19:05 <@ACS_MarkG> hey krill
19:05 < snoopy369> oh ACS_MarkG, can you or one of ye mod types close a couple of XBox-spam type threads in Other Games?
19:05 < snoopy369> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140081
19:05 < snoopy369> and http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140080
19:05 < snoopy369> thanks ;)  Rah is still unable to connect much i think
19:06 <@ACS_MarkG> killed
19:06 < snoopy369> krill what's up ;)
19:06 < snoopy369> thx :)
19:07 < snoopy369> wow, that was ... thorough ;)  As if they never even existed ... :lol:
19:08 < Krill> Hi all
19:08 < Krill> OK
19:08 < Krill> You want Aztecs?
19:08 < snoopy369> yessir
19:09 < Krill> Good choice?
19:09 < Krill> sure about that?
19:09 < snoopy369> why's that ;)
19:09 < snoopy369> you think they're not good?
19:09 < Krill> can't really voice my opinion on the matter...
19:09 <@ACS_MarkG> monetzuma is evil 
19:09 < Krill> what he said
19:10 < Krill> Wait until 25th, right?
19:10 < snoopy369> Are you a beta tester krill ???
19:11 <@ACS_MarkG> he cant say to pressure him :)
19:11 < snoopy369> ?
19:11  * snoopy369 is confused
19:12 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
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19:12 < Krill> well...
19:12 <@ACS_MarkG> to = dont
19:12 < Krill> I can't say, so don't pressure me.
19:12 -!- ACS_MarkG changed the topic of #apolyton to: Apolyton Chat: CIV4 GOES GOLD!! PARTY TIME, JOIN THE CHAT! 
19:12 < Krill> :p
19:14 < snoopy369> you can't say if you're a beta tester? :)
19:14 < snoopy369> i'm pretty sure other people have said they're beta testers, but okay ;)
19:14 < snoopy369> anywho that makes me a lot more nervous about this game :eek:
19:15 < snoopy369> bah i can't believe Ludd
19:15 < Krill> where?
19:15 < snoopy369> suggesting in a thread about "how do i get a legal copy of the game" to pirate it 
19:15 < snoopy369> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139928
19:15 <@ACS_MarkG> idiot
19:15 < Krill> restrict him for a day?
19:15 < snoopy369> rofl
19:15 < snoopy369> i said a week ;)
19:16 < snoopy369> but i realize i'm in the less-vocal minority about piracy ... 
19:16 < Krill> leave him until the day of release, then restrict him until the end of the month.
19:16 < snoopy369> rofl ;)
19:16 < snoopy369> i was impressed that sava and I coexisted for a few hours though earlier this month ;)
19:16 < snoopy369> given he's about the polar opposite on that one
19:18 <@ACS_MarkG> post edited, ludd warned
19:18 < snoopy369> thx :D
19:19 < snoopy369> so you are coming to PolyCon 2006, right?
19:19 < snoopy369> assuming they raise the funds to fly you out etc. etc.?
19:19 -!- ACS_Solver [cp@195.69.89.82] has joined #apolyton
19:20 <@ACS_MarkG> hey solver
19:20 < snoopy369> lo solver
19:20 < ACS_Solver> shalom markos, hey snoopy :)
19:20 < Krill> hiya mate
19:20 < ACS_Solver> krilley :)
19:20 <@ACS_MarkG> yes i want to come, i'll do some personal fund raising of my own of course
19:20 < ACS_Solver> so markos, got firaxians attending?
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19:22 -!- Yin [~Java_user@iefp12.iefp.yale.edu] has joined #Apolyton
19:22 < snoopy369> wow
19:22 < snoopy369> this channel is ... active ???
19:22 < snoopy369> ;)
19:22 < Yin> Hi all.
19:22 < Krill> well, there goes to house
19:22 < snoopy369> tho maybe i just don't normally come online at this time ...
19:22 < snoopy369> rofl
19:22 < snoopy369> hello Yin ;)
19:23 < Krill> the, not to.
19:23 < Yin> Good to see ya, Snoop.
19:23 < Krill> Hi mate.
19:23 < Yin> So, recipes for cardboard anybody?
19:23 < Krill> soak it in water for a while
19:23 -!- homegrown [~homegrown@cpe-67-10-95-111.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #Apolyton
19:23 < Krill> and then cover it with brown sauce
19:23 < Yin> ...soak...in...water...check
19:23 < Yin> ...lots...of...suace...check
19:24 < Krill> I have never seen this channel so active before...
19:24 < snoopy369> ok there's no way 'we built this city' is the worst song ever
19:24 < homegrown> Howdy y'all
19:24 < Yin> LOL!  I know.  The song isn't THAT bad...
19:24 < snoopy369> N'Sync has plenty of albums to choose from ...
19:24 < snoopy369> ;)
19:24 < snoopy369> It's a classic, anyway
19:24 <@ACS_MarkG> i think firaxians are out having beers :)
19:24 < Yin> Yes, randomly choose any boy band song.
19:24 < snoopy369> hehe
19:24 < Yin> Well, Firaxis deserves it, I'd say.
19:25 < snoopy369> I think Trip will be too afraid of DG people to come ... :)
19:25 < Yin> O.K.  I'm at work and need to run, but I hope you all get your copies soon.  Snoop, I'm looking for great things from you on this one!
19:26 < Yin> Solver and Markos: Thanks for the great previews.
19:26 < ACS_Solver> Hey Yin :)
19:26 < snoopy369> um
19:26 < snoopy369> sigh
19:26 < ACS_Solver> One more part of me tomorrow ;)
19:26 < homegrown> Hey, Yin, aren't you the guy that's gonna eat the box?  ;)
19:26 < snoopy369> i'm not the sn00py everyone thinks I am ;)
19:26 < Yin> By the way, Solver: You knew from long ago about the ICS situation, so now I know why you were so eager to get me a copy!
19:26 < snoopy369> I organize PBEMs and DGs, not pretty pictures ;)
19:27 < Yin> Oh, sorry Snoopy369
19:27 < snoopy369> hehe it's ok ;)
19:27 < Yin> A curse of the name, I suppose.
19:27 < snoopy369> yessir
19:27 < ACS_Solver> Actually, when it had just started, I hadn't played the beta yet!
19:27 < Yin> Solver: Oh, I feel better!
19:27 < ACS_Solver> But yeah, for a good portion of it all I knew the ICS is dead :)
19:27 < Yin> "Dead"?
19:27 < Yin> How about "Sick"
19:27 < Yin> "Weary"
19:27 < ACS_Solver> Very, very did, buried and rotting :)
19:27 < snoopy369> you people are mean :p talking about this game with a week until I can play it ;(
19:27 < snoopy369> :D
19:28 < ACS_Solver> Hey you can be like Yin, imagine a strategy before playing the game :)
19:28 < Yin> Snoop: Well, thanks for your work on PBEM.  I might be involved this time around.
19:28 < ACS_Solver> Or ARE you Sid after all, Yin?
19:28 < homegrown> if by ICS you mean setting up a 4-turn settler pump... then yeah.. it's dead.  dead, buried, gone.
19:28 < Yin> LOL!
19:28 -!- mode/#apolyton [+o ACS_Solver] by ACS_MarkG
19:28 < snoopy369> hehe
19:28 < Yin> It'll be fun to test city spamming this time around.
19:28 < snoopy369> mmmm ... 4 turn settler pump ...
19:28 < Yin> I hope my attempts fail miserably.
19:28 < snoopy369> i'm going to miss that ;)
19:29 <@ACS_Solver> you will fail ;)
19:29 < Yin> But I will give it everyting I have!!!
19:29 <@ACS_Solver> ahhh, you have a reason to :)
19:29 < snoopy369> rofl
19:29 < Yin> Don't underestimate my desire not to eat cardboard...
19:29 < homegrown> heh
19:29 < snoopy369> i think we need a Yin Gets A Video Camera fund now :)
19:29 < Yin> LOL
19:29 < snoopy369> digital*
19:29 < Yin> My place of work has one.  Hopefully it will stay in the case.
19:29 <@ACS_Solver> i'm going to ask Soren to send Yin his
19:30 <@ACS_Solver> on the other hand, maybe Yin better not tape it
19:30 < Yin> I also have a camera man (a friend) on standby.
19:30 < homegrown> heh
19:30 <@ACS_Solver> or the FBI will have video evidence against Apolytoners torturing a respectable man
19:30 < Yin> True!
19:30 < Krill> eh,
19:30 < Krill> 4 turn settler pumps are not dead
19:30 < Yin> I have only every loved Civ and all its people.
19:30 < Krill> you just have to throw out 25 shields/food per turn...
19:31 < Krill> there just very expensive
19:31 < Yin> Krill: Yes, this will be fun to mess with.
19:31 < snoopy369> um
19:31 < Yin> I'm looking forward to it!
19:31 < snoopy369> 4 turn settler pumps will get VERY expensive very quickly :)
19:31 < Yin> Alright.  Take care all.  
19:31 <@ACS_Solver> Well, I do have cities that can build Settlers in 4 turns later in the game
19:31 -!- Yin [~Java_user@iefp12.iefp.yale.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:31 <@ACS_Solver> But by that time the initial expansion is over
19:32 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
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19:33 <@ACS_MarkG> so snoopy what are your thoughts on the civ4 graphics?
19:34 < homegrown> oh, speaking of.. Solver, do you know the xml file and setting the unit size is?  i need to up mine a little now. :)
19:34 < snoopy369> lol
19:34 < snoopy369> as long as you're not confusing me with sn00py ... ;) they're ok i guess :)  I probably won't really like them much until I see them in action
19:35 < snoopy369> 3d always looks sort of cruddy in screenshots
19:35 <@ACS_Solver> somewhere :D
19:35  * ACS_MarkG is trying to create some discussion :)
19:35 < snoopy369> i have to say i'm of the school of "I wish they kept this 2d ... but i understand the need for 3d"
19:35 < snoopy369> lol
19:35 < snoopy369> it's my kneejerk reaction to seeing the word "graphics" lol
19:36 < Krill> the graphics are decent, IMO
19:36 < Krill> though the hills could be better...
19:37 <@ACS_MarkG> there are already some terrain mods in the works ;)
19:37 < snoopy369> lol
19:39 < snoopy369> maybe sn00py got a beta copy :)
19:40 <@ACS_MarkG> btw, feel free to ask Solver (not me ;)) stuff, i'm working on a supplement for the previews
19:40 < snoopy369> more likely CFC folk i guess
19:40 <@ACS_MarkG> i'll put the answers in it :)
19:40  * snoopy369 asks if the Aztecs are a good civchoice for a tiny map 2v2 game :)
19:40 < Krill> damn you...
19:40 < snoopy369> rofl :)
19:41 < snoopy369> I'd have taken Japan but i'm already Japan in another similar game
19:42 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
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19:42 < snoopy369> oh
19:42 < snoopy369> i probably should call EBgames and tell them not to save me a copy ;)
19:42 <@ACS_MarkG> why?
19:42 < snoopy369> gamestop is definitely the place to buy it on the 25th
19:43 < snoopy369> just geography
19:43 < snoopy369> gamestop is on my  bus route to/from work
19:43 < snoopy369> ebgames... is not :)
19:43 < homegrown> i preordered online for instore pickup so ebgames by god better have mine on the 25th. :)
19:43 < snoopy369> it was just the place to buy it if i bought it on 24th
19:43 < snoopy369> now, i'm still a bit confused - you posted "ships on 25th"
19:43 < snoopy369> so that means it'll be there wednesday, right, 26th? not tuesday?
19:45 <@ACS_MarkG> given the original date of 24 i really cant say anything anymore :)
19:45 <@ACS_MarkG> i initially had the info that it's shipped on the 24th and will be in stores in the 25th 
19:46 < snoopy369> ah
19:46 < Krill> look at it this way
19:46 < snoopy369> well, i work the same shift tues/weds
19:46 < Krill> you get it before the Euros.
19:46 < snoopy369> so it's the same as long as gamestop calls me :)
19:46 < snoopy369> yessir
19:46 < snoopy369> except those euros who betatest :p
19:46 < Krill> don't complain.
19:46 < snoopy369> lol
19:46 < snoopy369> hm, ebgames person on phone was moron
19:46 < snoopy369> she told me i needed to do it online :)
19:46 < Krill> they always are
19:47 < snoopy369> i said ... um, no, they said to call it in the store
19:47 < snoopy369> so she just took my info i think and that's it
19:47 < snoopy369> so i hope they don't charge my creditcard :)
19:49 <@ACS_MarkG> that's an issue, yes :)
19:49 < snoopy369> lol
19:49 < snoopy369> ah well ;)
19:51 <@ACS_Solver> booooo
19:51 < snoopy369> i still don't understand your post in IC2 green krill from like a month ago
19:51 <@ACS_Solver> back for a moment :)
19:51 < snoopy369> hehe
19:51 < snoopy369> [12:42] * snoopy369 asks if the Aztecs are a good civchoice for a tiny map 2v2 game :)
19:51 < Krill> just don't ask about it.
19:51 < snoopy369> hehehe
19:51 < snoopy369> will do sir
19:51 < Krill> It was hairy for a moment.
19:51 < Krill> then I got bloody disease.
19:51 < snoopy369> you and theseus ... such concerns ...
19:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
19:52 < snoopy369> disease ???
19:52 < snoopy369> that's not good :)
19:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
19:52 < snoopy369> although given your starting location ... :lol:
19:52 < snoopy369> but you haven't seen the whole map have ye
19:52 < Krill> that as not my starting location
19:52 < snoopy369> oh, i know
19:52 < snoopy369> i mean your settling location ;)
19:52 < Krill> my starting location was marsh and forst, and desert
19:53 < Krill> some people got beautiful starting locations.
19:53 < Krill> Rommel can't balance maps. He is a crap map maker
19:53 < snoopy369> lol
19:53 < snoopy369> Paddy's is pretty nice
19:54 < snoopy369> mine is ... okay
19:54 < snoopy369> theseus isn't better off than ye
19:54 <@ACS_MarkG> are you guys going to play any MP?
19:54 < Krill> sure
19:54 -!- bsarsgard [~chatzilla@216.64.2.108] has joined #apolyton
19:55 < snoopy369> yeah
19:55 < snoopy369> quite possibly more than PBEM ... if it works well
19:55 < snoopy369> and there are enough people to play it with
19:55 < snoopy369> i can only play sunday and monday, though
19:55 < snoopy369> unless we set up one or two hour at a time sessions 
19:56 <@ACS_MarkG> hey bsargard
19:56 < snoopy369> i presume it's saveable+resumable?
19:56 <@ACS_MarkG> yes
19:56 <@ACS_MarkG> if someone looses connection the other players have a nice interface where they can vote on what to do :)
19:56 < snoopy369> Krill: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/snoopy369/sciencescreenie.jpg
19:57 < snoopy369> i started in the obvious spot in the northwest
19:57 < snoopy369> about 3-4 squares north of my city
19:57 < snoopy369> THAT's on a LARGE map
19:57 -!- BlueWaldo [~adfg@67.43.240.232] has joined #Apolyton
19:57 < snoopy369> MarkG: that's good
19:57 < bsarsgard> Hi all
19:57 < snoopy369> i've played several MP games recently that were poorly done in terms of connection losing :)
19:57 <@ACS_MarkG> hi bluewaldo
19:57 -!- Rhye [IkerTY@62.123.52.154] has joined #apolyton
19:58 < Rhye> hello
19:58 <@ACS_MarkG> hey rhye
19:58 < snoopy369> as in they'd crash the game :)
19:58 < snoopy369> lo rhye
19:58 < BlueWaldo> Hello everyone
19:58 < snoopy369> Lo
19:58 < BlueWaldo> Can't play the new game yet, so I thought I would see what is going on
19:58 < snoopy369> BTW MarkG, is Rommel going to be Civ4 forum mod as well, or just Ming?
19:59 <@ACS_MarkG> if he wants to help, sure
19:59 <@ACS_MarkG> argh!!!!!!!! civ3 graphics!! :(
20:00 < snoopy369> lol
20:00 < snoopy369> you didn't have to click on it ;)
20:00 <@ACS_MarkG> i didnt want to :)
20:01 < snoopy369> lol
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20:02 <@ACS_MarkG> interesting, there is a thread about euro release within a week from the 25th
20:03 -!- volcanohead [~burton@host30-108.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has joined #Apolyton
20:05 <@ACS_MarkG> hey volc :)
20:06 -!- Senethro [~Senethro@res05-ah59.res.st-and.ac.uk] has joined #apolyton
20:06 < Senethro> So.
20:06 < Senethro> Whats with people in the chatroom?
20:06 < Senethro> Thats not normal.
20:07 < Senethro> Something happening?
20:07 < BlueWaldo> I came here because I thought people would be talking about CIV
20:07 < BlueWaldo> I was wrong
20:07 -!- snoopy369 [snoopy369@adsl-65-42-86-121.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:07 < volcanohead> hello all
20:07 < volcanohead> nice to see you
20:07 < Senethro> heh.
20:07 < Senethro> I've never seen this room active...
20:07 < Senethro> I think they all use civirc
20:07 < Senethro> Or the OTers do anyway...
20:08 <@ACS_MarkG> senethro! 
20:09 < Senethro> Hi :)
20:09 <@ACS_MarkG> we are talking about civ bluewaldo
20:09 < volcanohead> do you huys think there were many last minute changes, or is the gold version the same as that which you have seen?
20:09 <@ACS_MarkG> what do you want to know? ask away! :)
20:09 < BlueWaldo> my bad
20:09 < Senethro> Ummmm.
20:09 < BlueWaldo> I want to know why it isn't tuesday yet
20:10 <@ACS_MarkG> there have been mainly bug fixes and small settings, etc changes nothing major
20:10 -!- snoopy369 [snoopy369@adsl-65-42-86-121.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #apolyton
20:10 < Senethro> Nothing I wanted to know as such. I just saw 9 people in the room and wondered if there was some scheduled chat with firaxis or something
20:10 < Senethro> As you never see people in the room otherwise :P
20:10 < snoopy369> ROFL!
20:10 < snoopy369> proof that computers are smart :)
20:10 <@ACS_MarkG> it's an unscheduled party :)
20:10 <@ACS_MarkG> we have plenty of people on the 7 years birthday party!
20:10 < homegrown> it's a Gold Party!
20:10 < snoopy369> i was reading a trollish thread in OT (Boris Gudonov-started) and my computer bluescreened :)
20:10 <@ACS_MarkG> have=had
20:11 < snoopy369> it couldn't take it any more :lol:
20:11 < volcanohead> or at least your pc couldn't
20:11  * snoopy369 shudders to think what happens next time he opens a thread of Pekka's :cringe
20:11 < snoopy369> :
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20:12 < Senethro> Still, could be worse :). It ain't civfanatics 
20:12 < snoopy369> lol
20:12 < volcanohead> so behind the scenes, how much interaction do you guys have with firaxis? And why are civfanatics on civ4.com and not us? 
20:12 < snoopy369> i think that would cause permanent bsods
20:13 < snoopy369> I blame Yin on that one volcanohead :P
20:13 < volcanohead> stirred them up a bit over civ3? He seems to have been very civil recently
20:13 < snoopy369> lol
20:14 < snoopy369> actually i have no idea, i'm just trying to stimulate conversation ala markg :)
20:14 < snoopy369> I was technically a member in 2001, i think
20:14 < snoopy369> hmm, no
20:14 < snoopy369> i think i browsed the site as a guest in 2001 :)
20:14 < snoopy369> but my understanding yin was very critical of civ3
20:14 <@ACS_MarkG> we'll be added on civ4.com in the coming days
20:15 < volcanohead> great!
20:15 < Senethro> Hmmmm.
20:15 < homegrown> The level of interaction is pretty great, volcanohead.  I"ve tested with a lot of different companies, and the firaxis guys are the best.
20:15 < Senethro> Surely one man called Yin isn't responsible for Firaxis thinking 'poly only give s bad press...
20:16 <@ACS_MarkG> although with publishers webmasters one can never be sure on times (they are usually a hnndfull for tenths of sites)
20:16 <@ACS_MarkG> senethro, naaah, it's not like that
20:17 <@ACS_MarkG> plenty of people from apolyton are in the beta session...
20:17 < snoopy369> I presume in actuality it's that CFC is bigger in the US and thus bigger with the larger group of random market?
20:17 < Senethro> Could be.
20:17 < Senethro> Its not lke 'poly is short of americans though.
20:18 < snoopy369> yeah ;)
20:18 <@ACS_MarkG> i think some 2K web designer had in his to-do list to add links to site and he just found one and added it :)
20:18 <@ACS_MarkG> site= sites
20:18 < snoopy369> though someone once showed that CFC wins the Googlerace in USA, while european googles point to Apolyton. :)
20:19 < volcanohead> here's a question: is there a plan in place for a patch? I imagine it's gone gold in a very good state, but are Firaxis prepared for a fast update upon release if it turns out something was missed? 
20:19 <@ACS_Solver> OK guys, Civ4 questions anyone :)?
20:19 < snoopy369> i still want to know about the Aztecs :P
20:19 < Senethro> Solver: nothing that I'm sure you're not bored with. I'm prepared to wait and see now.
20:19 < Senethro> Oh, wait.
20:19 < Senethro> I tell a lie.
20:19 <@ACS_Solver> What about the Aztecs :)?
20:19 < Senethro> How easy is it to make +1/+2 gold per tile?
20:19 < snoopy369> are they a good MP team :)
20:19 <@ACS_Solver> I'm prepared to answer a few now :)
20:19 < BlueWaldo> How long will it take to play a 12 player MP game?
20:20 <@ACS_MarkG> we havent heard from firaxis on any plans for a patch yet. in fact i believe they went gold a day early :)
20:20 < volcanohead> can you quickly see how many hammeres and gold are produced by a city without opening it?
20:20 <@ACS_Solver> Senethro - if you build cottages, you'll have surplus commerce. Or go coastal cities.
20:20 <@ACS_Solver> Volcanohead - yes
20:20 < homegrown> volcanohead, yes. :)
20:20 <@ACS_Solver> Snoop - I think Aztecs are nice, although rather circumstanstial
20:20 < snoopy369> yeah
20:20 < BlueWaldo> when it talks about "teams" sharing research and wonder effects is that only teams that are setup before the game or does that include in game allies?
20:20 < Senethro> Solver: but otherwise is there no way of making money from land without a special resource there?
20:20 <@ACS_Solver> A 12 players MP game, that's a tough one. Depends on the settings, but it can be a long game of many hours
20:20 < snoopy369> are the civs pretty evenly balanced, ie no "agricultural" issue ie civ3?
20:21 < snoopy369> civs/traits that is
20:21 < volcanohead> are the city governors smart? do they do as efficient a job as possible?
20:21 <@ACS_Solver> Senethro - if you're financial, coastal cities are very good money makers. Plus, trade routes help
20:21 <@ACS_Solver> I haven't played Conquests, but traits are well balanced now!
20:22 < Senethro> Thx. But lets wait until theres been some multiplay before saying well balanced ;)
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20:22 < snoopy369> would you say they're more important than UUs, or the other way around?
20:22 < snoopy369> in terms of choosing a civ
20:22 <@ACS_Solver> BlueWaldo - it's teams before the game, but you can play with the option that lets you create such alliances in game
20:22 < Senethro> Have you seen the traits snoopy? They're wicked powerful. 
20:22 -!- quantum_mechani [~knight_et@209-193-43-9-dial-as1.paq.acsalaska.net] has joined #apolyton
20:22 < snoopy369> i've seen them yes ;)
20:22 <@ACS_Solver> Hmm, well, for me, traits are more important. I play Random civ anyway, but I adapt my strategy to traits, not UUs
20:22 < BlueWaldo> Solver: If you create such an alliance in game can you break it in the game?
20:22 < homegrown> just live every other version of civ, your traits, uu, etc are situation dependent and what you do with them.
20:23 <@ACS_Solver> BlueWaldo - no. They're called permanent alliances and are indeed such. The option is off by default.
20:24  * ACS_MarkG will be back in 10
20:24 -!- PeteT [~Java_user@wnpgmb01dc2-109-38.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #Apolyton
20:24 < snoopy369> cya then, i'll be off to work in 10 ;)
20:24 < BlueWaldo> One last question: I am planning a 12+ player LAN game for next weekend. Am I going to be disapointed?
20:24 <@ACS_Solver> No way I can tell how would you people feel :)
20:25 < homegrown> No.  It's gonna rock. :)
20:25  * homegrown crosses fingers
20:25 < volcanohead> so you beta testers are all pretty happy with civ4, no? You all seem very positive...
20:25 < Krill> it would depend on what each person wants from the game
20:26 < snoopy369> Krill did ye see my image waay up there? :) (the horrid-start image)
20:26 < BlueWaldo> cop out answer.
20:26 < Krill> really?
20:26 < Krill> Even though it is the right answer?
20:27 < Krill> What if one person wanted the ultimate MM game, and another wanted a game with no MM?
20:27 < BlueWaldo> MM?
20:27 < Krill> Snoop, yeah I saw it.
20:27 < snoopy369> ah cool ;)
20:27 < Krill> horrid start
20:27 < snoopy369> just wanted to make ye feel better :P
20:27 < Krill> really bad.
20:27 < Senethro> I can't think of many people who want micro for its own sake :/
20:27 < snoopy369> Senethro: actually a lot of people enjoy MM
20:27 < snoopy369> Modo for example :)
20:27 < quantum_mechani> I know what I what from the game, a level of complexity comparable to SMAC
20:28 < Senethro> Theres good micro and bad micro.
20:28 -!- volcanohead [~burton@host30-108.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has quit [Quit: ]
20:28 < BlueWaldo> How about this: Over the course of our game how many times should I expect (on aveage) one (or all) players to be dropped from the game, or the game to freeze?
20:28 < Senethro> Bad micro is when I'm ICSing in SMAC and end up with 150 formers and 200+ crawlers in 100 turns.
20:28 < snoopy369> ROFL
20:28 < Krill> never played SMAC...
20:28 < snoopy369> well i doubt that'll happen in this game :)
20:28 -!- homegrown is now known as homegrown|log
20:29 < Senethro> Moving 150 formers about hurts my brain.
20:29 < quantum_mechani> crawlers and ICSing were braken, but I liked formers
20:29 < quantum_mechani> *broken
20:29 < Senethro> Crawlers were surely broken, but they made SMAC good :)
20:29 < quantum_mechani> how?
20:29 < Senethro> Being able to resolve a game in 150 turns max is a positive thing.
20:30 < quantum_mechani> meh, just play small maps ;)
20:30 < quantum_mechani> and leave out the unabalance
20:30 < Senethro> Meh, small maps didn't give you many gameplay options.
20:31 < BlueWaldo> no one as an answer for me?
20:31  * snoopy369 must get ready for work
20:31  * snoopy369 waves goodbye to the nearly record crowd :D
20:31 -!- Atahualpa [~Don@cm165-25.liwest.at] has joined #apolyton
20:31 < Atahualpa> Hi
20:31 < Senethro> hi
20:31 < Krill> hi
20:32 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
20:32 <@ACS_Solver> Hey Ata!
20:32 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
20:32 < quantum_mechani> well, regardless of how much unbalance, or how long a game takes to complete, I know it is not going to hold my interest me very long if it is only around civ3 complexity
20:32 < Atahualpa> Hey! Is this some official chat? With Firaxis people?
20:32 < Senethro> I think we can discount that possiblity quantum.
20:32 < Senethro> Civics and religions should do the trick.
20:32 < Krill> we wish, ata, we wish...
20:32 -!- PeteT [~Java_user@wnpgmb01dc2-109-38.dynamic.mts.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:32 < snoopy369> lol
20:32 < snoopy369> we have solver at least :) 
20:33 < quantum_mechani> hmm, still, it is a long hop from civ 3 complexity to SMAC
20:33 <@ACS_Solver> Yep, I represent Firaxis!
20:33 < Atahualpa> Hold him, so that he cannot escape! :)
20:33  * snoopy369 escapes ...
20:33  * snoopy369 to work :(
20:33 < quantum_mechani> and there is the 1-stat combat system
20:34 < Atahualpa> I am quite fascinated by this btw
20:34 -!- snoopy369 [snoopy369@adsl-65-42-86-121.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Snoopy must go type an epic novel ... or at least sell a few ...]
20:34 < Atahualpa> Never thought of reducing stats to add more complexity
20:34 <@ACS_Solver> That's right. That is because we Firaxians are great designers.
20:35 < Senethro> Are they reducing stats?
20:35 < Senethro> Adding the unit special abilities is adding more numbers, to be honest.
20:35 < Atahualpa> From A/D to just strength
20:35 <@ACS_Solver> Uhh, I've got an ego problem now
20:35 <@ACS_Solver> You know, it's great hearing Leonard Nimoy say "I am the lord thy God"
20:35 < Atahualpa> yes, that's true
20:35 < Senethro> :P From A/D/movement/shield cost to A/movement/specials/shield cost.
20:35 < Atahualpa> Does he also say "Fascinating" ?
20:36 <@ACS_Solver> Who knows...
20:36 < Senethro> Oooooh! Serious Q solver.
20:36 < Senethro> Have you opened up the world builder?
20:36 <@ACS_Solver> No :D
20:36 < Atahualpa> You :p
20:36 <@ACS_Solver> I've actually never seen Nimoy on TV, but gah!
20:38 -!- BlueWaldo [~adfg@67.43.240.232] has quit [Quit: ]
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20:40 < Atahualpa> I can't wait to get my hands on it... Today I read about the german package and I am quite happy. Being able to play it in english, a quality german voice (or supposed to be quality) instead of nimoy, a 220 page manual and a technology tree poster... great... I am sure to go out on Thursday or Friday and check all the stores to get it
20:41 <@ACS_Solver> The manual's 220 pages in the box?
20:41 < quantum_mechani> ok, so the religion system sounds nice, and maybe there will be a bit less MM, but what is really so great about civ4?
20:41 <@ACS_Solver> Everything :D
20:41 <@ACS_Solver> Almost
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20:42 <@ACS_Solver> It's just a better game in all concepts. It all really sums up.
20:42 < quantum_mechani> I don't really care about improved graphics
20:42 < Atahualpa> Yes, the german box includes the manual and the poster
20:43 < quantum_mechani> I am just having bad moo3-beta-tester-assurance flashbacks :P
20:43 < quantum_mechani> they just kept saying 'It's just great' and evaded specifics
20:43 <@ACS_Solver> Well, I enjoyed the game a lot!
20:43 < Atahualpa> which is not the case here, no?
20:43 < Atahualpa> Read the previews
20:44 <@ACS_Solver> Other beta testers are also truly happy.
20:44 <@ACS_Solver> The forum's really positive
20:45 < Senethro> theres a forum?
20:45 < Senethro> any chance of a pass ;) ?
20:45 < Atahualpa> :rolleyes:
20:45 < Senethro> ^^
20:45 -!- astrologix [~s_bottice@84-72-56-100.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: ]
20:45 <@ACS_Solver> Not really ;)
20:47 < quantum_mechani> Ok, here is an easy question, just how high can you crank up the barbarians? ;)
20:47 <@ACS_Solver> Put them on Raging Barbarians, and you'll get a real challenge from them.
20:47 < quantum_mechani> I was not satisfied with the highest level in civ 3
20:48 < quantum_mechani> do they kill cities, or just take gold, destroy buildings?
20:49 < quantum_mechani> how about barbarian modding?
20:49 <@ACS_Solver> They can take cities
20:50 < Atahualpa> How long on average does a game last? The shortest? The longest?
20:51 < Atahualpa> Sometimes I'd wish to play it all through in 2 hours or so
20:51 <@ACS_Solver> Depends on settings and your playstyle. Standard map and standard speed, I'd say it's games from 10 hours up. The Gamespy reviewer thought it's 5-8. It's really different.
20:51 < Senethro> Heh.
20:51 < Senethro> Gamespy.
20:52 <@ACS_Solver> I've played games of some 18 hours, too.
20:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
20:52 < Senethro> that well renowned bastion of accurate journalism...
20:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
20:52 <@ACS_Solver> On Quick mode, when testing that, I've played a full game in about 2.5 hours, but I didn't enjoy that nearly as much.
20:52 <@ACS_Solver> Now, Large maps under the Epic mode... yay!
20:52 < quantum_mechani> so, 18 hours about for an all-the-way-up-the-tech-tree-game?
20:53 < Atahualpa> hehe :) I like to play on smaller maps more, Civ3 I hardly went above standard
20:54 < Senethro> Solver: I take it theres not crawler/caravan unit?
20:54 <@ACS_Solver> I never enjoyed the shorter games as much as the longer ones
20:54 <@ACS_Solver> Nope, nothing like that.
20:55 < Senethro> CAn you disband units to make shields?
20:55 < Atahualpa> That's fair, in Civ3 what kept me from playing sometimes was the tedious and boring ancient time with the same steps always... but I think that's different now
20:55 <@ACS_Solver> You can disband, but I don't think it gives shields.
20:55 < Senethro> Ah. No more wonder instabuilds.
20:55 < Atahualpa> yeah, it's hammers now ;)
20:55 <@ACS_Solver> Hey you can start in the Medieval now if you want to
20:55 <@ACS_Solver> No, it's shields :p
20:56 <@ACS_Solver> And no instabuilds, this game is actually supposed to be challenging ;)
20:56 <@ACS_Solver> You don't complete the spaceship in 3 turns either
20:56 < quantum_mechani> hmm, how fast of connection is need for non-PBEM MP?
20:56 < quantum_mechani> *needed
20:57 < Senethro> Its nuts/mins/ecs, tbh :P
20:57 <@ACS_Solver> You'll do fine with anything better than 56k, I assume.
20:57 < Senethro> And instabuilds are challenging to coordinate. :P
20:57 <@ACS_Solver> No exploiting the AI :P
20:57 < quantum_mechani> I have worse then 56k ;P
20:57 < quantum_mechani> *than
20:58 < quantum_mechani> so probably internet MP is out then
20:58 <@ACS_Solver> Well I wouldn't know
20:58 <@ACS_Solver> I haven't tried that!
20:58 < Senethro> Hmmmm.
20:58 < Senethro> How does pitboss actually work? Have you tried?
20:58 < Senethro> I'm a bit puzzled in what order you take your turns.
20:59 <@ACS_Solver> In the correct order, just like PBEM.
20:59 <@ACS_Solver> I'm not exactly sure, Pitboss still has time to be changed
21:00 <@ACS_Solver> Or maybe it's like si-turns. Point is, it makes sure everyone takes the turn
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21:02 < Atahualpa> Who is the best player at Firaxis?
21:02 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
21:03  * ACS_MarkG is back
21:03 <@ACS_Solver> Friedrich :)
21:04 <@ACS_MarkG> Fried is not Firaxis :)
21:04 <@ACS_Solver> He is
21:04 < Krill> FP is C4P
21:04 <@ACS_Solver> He has a contract and is an actual employee, what else do you want?
21:04 < Krill> to be a Firaxian, he would have to be payed by Firaxis
21:05 < Krill> OK, he is a Firaxian...
21:05 <@ACS_Solver> He is, a consultant
21:05 <@ACS_Solver> http://www.firaxis.com/company/bios.php?bioid=67
21:05 <@ACS_Solver> http://www.firaxis.com/company/bios.php?bioid=65
21:06 -!- Gramphos [~viktor@gramphos.csbnet.se] has joined #apolyton
21:07 <@ACS_Solver> Hey Gram!
21:07 < Gramphos> hi
21:07 < Atahualpa> hi
21:07 < Atahualpa> btw, Solver, who's that on your Avatar?
21:08 <@ACS_Solver> the smoking man :D
21:08 <@ACS_Solver> character from the x-files
21:08 < Atahualpa> ok, I like it somehow, a nice shot
21:08 < Senethro> Meh, I need an av...
21:09 <@ACS_Solver> Thanks :D
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21:13 < Senethro> Any favorite civs so far?
21:13 < Senethro> Or favorite traits/UUs?
21:14 < Senethro> Both expansive and financial look good to me.
21:14 < Krill> Where is Shafer and Alex on that site, Solver?
21:14 < Krill> are, rather
21:20 < Krill> yay, I can kill conversations so easily...
21:21 < Atahualpa> Alex is also a Firaxian??
21:21 < Atahualpa> The guy who lives in Brazil?
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21:22 < Krill> Alexman, rather
21:23 < Krill> I guessed, as he sends my PBEM turns from a firaxis account.
21:23 < Krill> ...he sends me...
21:23 < Krill> damn, my english is bad tonight.
21:24 < Senethro> Another beta tester? :P
21:24 < Krill> nah
21:26 < Krill> So who has revealed themselves as beta testers so far?
21:26 < Krill> Friedrich, Notyoueither...
21:26 < Krill> Solver, MarkG
21:27 < Krill> anyone else?
21:27  * Senethro radiates jealousy.
21:27 < Gramphos> no comment
21:27 < Krill> I've heard that one before...
21:28 < Krill> :p
21:29 < Gramphos> and what do yuo intercept it as?
21:29 < Krill> that you have no idea who was a beta tester.
21:29 < Krill> I save up my paranoia for demogames. :p
21:30 < Gramphos> :cute:
21:30 < Senethro> Heh. Demogame plans in the works before anyone even knows how to play...
21:30 < Krill> yup
21:31 < Krill> beta testers will form a team and just crush the rest.
21:31 < homegrown|log> mwahahaha
21:32 < Gramphos> that's an idea
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21:38 < Senethro> Mark
21:38 < Senethro> Have you opened up the worldbuilder?
21:41 <@ACS_Solver> no one has :p
21:41 <@ACS_Solver> What's the point?
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21:42 < Senethro> :P
21:42 < Senethro> Curiosity maybe?
21:42 <@ACS_Solver> Nope!
21:43 < Senethro> As you have beta versions, I would have hunted amongst all the files by now, looking for anything interesting.
21:43 < Krill> um
21:44 < Krill> the game is in python and XML right?
21:44 < Senethro> yeah
21:45 <@ACS_MarkG> someone called?
21:45 < Krill> well, the files will be in XML and Python then. Can you read that?
21:46 < Senethro> Usually one can find interesting things in games even in just the sound/graphic files.
21:46 < Senethro> As an example, SMAC has a bunch of unused voiceovers.
21:47 < Senethro> But can't you just open XML files with a text editor?
21:47 < Krill> sure, you could
21:48 < Krill> but it is all formatted, right?
21:48 < Atahualpa> XML is formatted by definition ;)
21:49 <@ACS_MarkG> lol
21:49 < Krill> I ain't a programmer.
21:49 < Krill> I don't have a clue how nay of that stuff works.
21:49 < Atahualpa> basically, It's like HTML only that you can define your own tags
21:49 < Krill> though I must admit, I would love to have a powerful worldbuilder to use#
21:50 < Atahualpa> well the worldbuilder is there
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21:52 < Atahualpa> About the other stuff, well I guess it's only a matter of time when somebody will do a Editor tailored to civ4's XML and python files
21:52 < Senethro> It would be fun to find something like mindworms hidden in there somewhere.
21:52 < Atahualpa> that's not difficult to find if you've got google desktop search ;)
21:54 < Senethro> I'll keep that in mind when I buy the game.
21:57 < Atahualpa> You seem to be coming from AC..
21:57 < Atahualpa> Have you tried Civ3 as well?
21:58 < Senethro> Very much from AC.
21:58 < Krill> C3C is fun for PBEM
21:58 < Senethro> I found a rip of Civ3 on my university network about a year and a half ago.
21:58 < Senethro> And that put me onto playing the civ series.
21:58 < Senethro> Since then I've droppped civ3 entirely, dabbled a little in Civ2 and colonisation but stayed mainly with AC.
21:59 < Atahualpa> But how did you get into AC, without coming from Civ?
21:59 < Senethro> A friend
21:59 < Senethro> Lent me AC, then I went out and bought the expansion pack and game based on that.
22:00 < Atahualpa> So what do you think of Civ4?
22:00 < Senethro> I'm reserving opinion until a few months after playing.
22:00 < Senethro> I've no doubt it'll be a good single player game.
22:00 < Senethro> But a competitive multiplayer game?
22:01 < Senethro> Uncertain.
22:01 < Atahualpa> Well C3C was pretty competitive already, no?
22:01 < Senethro> Mmmmmmm.
22:01 < Senethro> Yeah, but I didn't like it :P
22:02 < Atahualpa> I felt it was the best the civ series had to offer. I couldn't go back to Civ2 anymore
22:02 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
22:02 < Krill> a
22:02 < Krill> b
22:02 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
22:02 < Krill> c
22:02 < Senethro> I coudn't really get into Civ2 either.
22:02 < Senethro> It was interesting to play after AC, as it shares many features.
22:02 < Senethro> And the Civ2 archives have been helpful in determining how some SMAC features work or why I suffered a bizarre bug in one PBEM.
22:03 -!- VJ [~Vajaa@ip82-133-155-5.adsl.academica.fi] has joined #apolyton
22:03 < Atahualpa> Hmm yeah, after Civ2 it seems as if the whole series had two different branches, Civ3 and AC... with Civ4 it seems they might be joining again
22:03 < VJ> What's with the buzz? Is cIV out yet?
22:04 < Senethro> VJ: next week
22:04 < Atahualpa> nope, but it has gone gold
22:04 < VJ> so that's a "no"? Now, why are there so many users here?
22:04 < Senethro> I think Civ3 and AC were developed simultaneously, for part of the time at least.
22:04 < Senethro> Hence how Civ3 misses a lot of AC improvements
22:05 < Senethro> VJ: I'm presuming its Marks fault. I just followed everyone else in here because I was hoping there was a scheduled chat.
22:06 <@ACS_MarkG> it's gold party :)
22:06 < Atahualpa> Could be true, although I don't remember it that way... Firaxis is not that large of a company to keep going fully on two big projects.. I guess that was one of the reasons why outsourced conquests
22:06 < Atahualpa> ...why they..
22:07 < VJ> Civ3 and Alien Crossfire could've been developed simultaneously.
22:07 <@ACS_MarkG> actually firaxis can work on two projects at the same time
22:07 < VJ> speaking of Civ3... it looks like the combat system is going to suck
22:07 < Atahualpa> how so?
22:08 < VJ> generic strength with a huge amount of hard-coded flags
22:08 < Senethro> So?
22:08 <@ACS_MarkG> they released pirates pc in 2004 and pirates xbox in 2005
22:08 < VJ> sucky sucky. If I can't mod "def" and "attack" values in there, I'm going to ditch the game out of a window, find my MGE CD again and start waiting for ciV
22:08 < Senethro> Heh.
22:09 < Senethro> Don't bother buying it then.
22:09 < Senethro> Have fun waiting.
22:09 < VJ> it makes creative customization of units impossible
22:09 < Senethro> Whys that?
22:09 < VJ> hard-coded flags being "it"
22:09 < VJ> customization as in modding
22:09 < Senethro> Oh, I get you now.
22:09 < Senethro> The unit flags are absolutely hardcoded? You can't add more?
22:10 < VJ> When Civ3 came out, all I wanted was a Civ2MGE with the possibility of playing 16 players.
22:10 < Senethro> How do you know this?
22:10 < VJ> I don't know.
22:10 < VJ> But that's what I'm afraid of.
22:10 < Senethro> Then I wouldn't be afraid.
22:10 < Atahualpa> I guess you'll be able to define new flags, at least with the SDK that they'll release
22:10 < VJ> That's because you trust Firaxis. After Civ3, I don't.
22:10 < Senethro> Its such an obvious part to make moddable, that I can't imagine they would leave it hardcoded.
22:10 < VJ> yeah, you'd think huh? :)
22:11 < Senethro> Its pretty important that its moddable, otherwise it'll scupper the C4:AC project :/
22:11 < VJ> Just like you'd think that it was ABSOLUTELY OBVIOUS that they'd leave it possible to allow some way more than 4 players in a tiny map in C3C MP
22:11 < Senethro> ?
22:11 < VJ> You can't do that.
22:11 < Senethro> Remind me how big tiny maps are?
22:12 < VJ> I don't remember. The smallest map size
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22:12 <@ACS_MarkG> all combat values for units arein an xml file....
22:12 < Senethro> 4 players on a tiny map soudns about right to be honest...
22:12 < VJ> But I remember when I first played C3C, the first thing I tried to do was setting up a MP
22:12 < Senethro> So you have gone looking mark? :)
22:12 < VJ> Yeah? Well it doesn't if you want to finish the game within 24 hours or at least with ALL THE ORIGINAL PLAYERS IN.
22:12 < Senethro> :P
22:12 < Atahualpa> You can adjust the number of civs for each map size in the editor
22:13 <@ACS_MarkG> i was certain i just hadnt opened the file until now :)
22:13 < Senethro> I really don't care, I only play PBEM. Turn based games are not for real time.
22:13 < VJ> Yeah, but then everyone playing the MP has to have the same editor-created file
22:13 < VJ> Which is just "GRAAAAH THEY GOD DAMN IDIOTS"
22:13 < Atahualpa> is that such a problem?
22:13 < VJ> YES
22:14 < Senethro> Can you save the whining until after the game has been released :P
22:14 < VJ> If you want to MP. The more players in MP, the better.
22:14 < VJ> I'm not whining about cIV, I'm whining about civ3
22:14 < quantum_mechani> You know, it is a shame more games don't have turn based MP that can be played in one session
22:14 < Senethro> Then instead, let the past go and stop holding on to your issues.
22:14 < VJ> mmh-h, simultaneous moves is pretty much a must in tbs mp
22:14 <@ACS_MarkG> actually civ4 has mod support in-game so you wont have the issue of people with modded files
22:14 < quantum_mechani> and by turn based I mean really turn based, no reflexs involved
22:14 <@ACS_MarkG> you can very easily change between mods
22:15 < VJ> Then again, Civ2MGE doesn't have it and it's really good since you can do all the brainwork in the other players' turns.
22:15 < quantum_mechani> simultaneous means you still have to move your units quick, AFAIK
22:15 < Atahualpa> I've only had PBEM games and there it wasn't a problem to distribute a scenario file... ofc Civ3 had some stupid incompatibilities between languages
22:17 < quantum_mechani> vs. a setup where the server stores all players orders, when everyone hits end turn, execute them at the same time
22:17 < Atahualpa> is this the pitboss thing?
22:17 < VJ> Quantum, mhhm not really. It forces you to create priorities between your units... some players rush all their units near the border quickly without thinking or getting support, some think and use def et cetera
22:18 < VJ> But in SMAC, I've always used a setting which left all the players plenty of times to complete their turns (we always had crawlers turned off)
22:19 < VJ> The problem with that is that many units will have conflicting orders.
22:20 < quantum_mechani> that is just it about the unit priorities, reflexes and quick thinking matter, thus not really tbs
22:20 < VJ> hey, it's turn-based, it's strategy. Turn-based-strategy
22:21 < quantum_mechani> call it what you like, it has a real time element
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22:22 < VJ> How does "TBS for pussies" sound like?
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22:23 < quantum_mechani> most people play tbs because they like time to think
22:23 < VJ> It seems that Quake4 has leaked before it's been even released, Sava is hyping that you can warez it in Other Games.
22:24 < VJ> I hope cIV doesn't get leaked, it would hurt the sales :q:
22:24 < VJ> OTOH, rich bastards who warez like Jaguar also hurt the sales of PC games, thus forcing games to evolve towards simplistic consoles :(
22:24 < quantum_mechani> my point is, why put in a real time part when you can have your cake and eat it too?
22:25 < VJ> The concept sounds good. What I'd need to give an opinion about it, is to test it.
22:25 < VJ> Does any game have a mp-mode like that?
22:25 < quantum_mechani> two that I know of, Stars! and Dominions
22:26 < Senethro> Never heard of them ;)
22:26 < Senethro> And quake4 is just the sort of game to be leaked
22:26 -!- Eli [~moshe8000@bzq-82-81-76-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #Apolyton
22:26 < quantum_mechani> Stars! is quite old
22:26 < Eli> :dance:
22:26 <@ACS_MarkG> hey eli
22:26 < Eli> hey
22:26 < quantum_mechani> and Dominions is an indie made game, doesn't get near the coverage it should
22:26 < Atahualpa> I know Spaceward Ho! where you give orders simultaneously which are resolved during end of turn calculations
22:26 < VJ> Hi Eli! Long time no see. How's the whole withdrawing fundamentalist settlers thing going on in Israel?
22:27 < VJ> The news in Finland aren't reporting about it, so I guess it's going on well.
22:27 < Eli> It's old news already.
22:27 < Eli> :)
22:28 < VJ> Finnish news are so blatantly biased against Israel it makes me sick, they hyped up the withdrawal and somehow spun it into an ISRAELI OFFENSIVE against Palestinian civilians. :puke:
22:28 < VJ> So it went well?
22:28 < Eli> What's important is how to fix my internet setting to get eMule working again. :cute: 
22:29 < VJ> I hope it doesn't turn out like the withdrawal from Lebanon, Israel is pretty much the sole reason for the whole mid-east mess, within Israel also lies the solution
22:29 < Eli> VJ: Yeah, over in a bit more than a week(that was 2 months ago).
22:29 < Eli> Come join the IDF.
22:29 < Eli> :PO
22:29 < VJ> mr. mule be Yarrr and woo :b:
22:30 < VJ> I think I'd have to be an Israeli-born (or at least jewish, no chance I'm going to mess with my penis at this age) citizen to do that.
22:30 < Eli> Markos, what do you think about the voiceovers in Civ4? Are they as good as those in SMAC?
22:30 < VJ> Is Markos a beta-tester?
22:30 < Eli> Doh.
22:31 < Atahualpa> It's Leonard Nimoy speaking!!
22:31 < Eli> I mean Duh
22:31 < Eli> Yeah, Solver told me it's Nemoy. :cool:
22:32 <@ACS_Solver> Markos is a beating bag for beta testers :cute:
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22:32 < Atahualpa> And I heard they seem to have hired some quality voices for localized versions as well.. at least that's true for the german one
22:32 < Eli> That was the single coolest feature of SMAC. Sometimes I do a quick OCC game just to hear the voiceovers and see the wonder movies
22:33 <@ACS_MarkG> someone remind me, there were different voices in the voiceovers in smac, right?
22:33 < VJ> Wonder movies in SMAC were very :unworthy:
22:34 -!- VJ [~Vajaa@ip82-133-155-5.adsl.academica.fi] has left #apolyton [Zzz]
22:34 <@ACS_Solver> SMAC voiceovers were uber
22:34 <@ACS_Solver> separate voices for each leader
22:34 <@ACS_Solver> sexy deirdre.... uhmmm
22:35 <@ACS_MarkG> correct
22:35 <@ACS_MarkG> that's what i'm missing, the difference in the voices. other than that Nimoy's voice is cool
22:35 <@ACS_Solver> no reason to have different voices here
22:35 <@ACS_Solver> smac quotes came from the leaders
22:35 <@ACS_Solver> so they read them
22:36 <@ACS_Solver> but when Nimoy says "I'm the lord thy God", what else do you want?
22:36 < Eli> hehe
22:37 < Eli> Although it would've been better to have more voices. At least a male and female voice like they had in SMAC for the "datalinks" quotes.
22:37 <@ACS_Solver> i actually know almost all the quotes by now
22:37 <@ACS_Solver> and remember the intonations...
22:39 < Atahualpa> yeah a male and female voice would have been even cooler... Gillian Anderson maybe?
22:39 < Eli> Stupid semester starting a few days after the release. :grumble:
22:39 <@ACS_Solver> If it were Gillian Anderson, I would send Soren a pack of beer for every day
22:40 < Senethro> Stop the unashamed geekiness please :P
22:40 <@ACS_Solver> Then again I'm already in awe of the Firaxians :)
22:40 <@ACS_Solver> Geek, who :)?
22:40 < Senethro> Gillian Anderson :)
22:40 <@ACS_Solver> oh :p
22:40 <@ACS_Solver> She's sexy not geeky :p
22:40 < Eli> Who is it?
22:40 <@ACS_Solver> Banned!
22:40 < Atahualpa> Eli, there have been guys here who played 8 hours a day WoW and still went to university courses... ofc don't ask me how successful they have been :cute:
22:41 < Senethro> Mr Nimoy sounds right for the part, with his grandfatherly voice, but the desire for gillian anderson is going to far :)
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22:42 <@ACS_Solver> You just wait until you hear some of the actual quotes :)
22:42 < Senethro> Why not upload a few of the voice files? ;)
22:43 < Atahualpa> So what about Sigourney Weaver? Not a real hottie, but a character
22:43 <@ACS_Solver> Would scare me
22:43 <@ACS_Solver> Give me Gillian! Hey, I gotta suggest that for the expansion
22:43 < Senethro> :rolleyes:
22:43 <@ACS_Solver> Anderson and Nimoy have actually been tomorrow
22:43 <@ACS_Solver> Err, together
22:43 <@ACS_Solver> *crazy me*
22:44 < Atahualpa> Or have a computer voice such as the one in that Radiohead song
22:45 < Atahualpa> Fitter, Happier & More Productive
22:45 <@ACS_Solver> Maybe we should get Sid drunk like hell and then have him record the speech
22:45 < Atahualpa> Hey, Civ4 is about "serious gaming"(tm)
22:46 < Senethro> Oh, I intend that it will be.
22:48 < Atahualpa> Btw, anybody going to attend PolyConvention 06?
22:49 < Eli> Too far
22:49 < Atahualpa> Nothing's too far, just too costly :p
22:50 < Atahualpa> expensive, I mean.. dude
22:50 < Eli> Well, yeah.
22:50 <@ACS_Solver> It's in the US!!!
22:50 <@ACS_Solver> And transport to the US is not available
22:51 < Atahualpa> you don't have airports?
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22:52 < Eli> ROFL
22:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
22:52 < Eli> Well, Lithuania being an ex Soviet republic
22:52 < Eli> (or Latvia?)
22:52 <@ACS_Solver> BOth :p
22:53 <@ACS_Solver> We do have airports, but I don't fly
22:53 <@ACS_Solver> In fact, our new airport is among the nicest in Europe :)
22:53 < Eli> I meant the country in which you live. I keep confusing the two.
22:53 < Atahualpa> Airfare to Baltimore directly is some €300
22:53 -!- Locutus [~locutus@ip54514369.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #apolyton
22:53 < Locutus> hey folks
22:53 < Atahualpa> heya
22:54 < Eli> Is that black square I'm seeing means dollars, euros or barrels of oil?
22:54 < Locutus> did I miss anything?
22:54 < Atahualpa> euros
22:54 < Eli> Yeah
22:54 < Eli> They're cancelling Civ4
22:54 < Eli> It was a big prank
22:54 < Locutus> nooooooooo!!!!
22:54 < Eli> Fooled us all
22:54 < Locutus> sure did a convincing job then :)
22:54 < Atahualpa> Kept the money from preorder and disappeared to Argentinia
22:55 < Locutus> we have agents there, we will track them down...
22:55 < Eli> I wonder how much they paid Markos and Solver to invent some "reviews".
22:56 < Atahualpa> And how did they get all those screenshots together?
22:56 <@ACS_Solver> Ha, you wish, Eli :)
22:56 -!- mode/#apolyton [+o Locutus] by ACS_MarkG
22:56 <@Locutus> well, they both live in 3rd world countries, can't have been much ;)
22:56 <@ACS_Solver> I wrote the review honestly ;)
22:56 <@ACS_Solver> Who 3rd world country, me, you backward Dutchie :p?
22:56 <@ACS_Solver> I... I.... I have a shower at home!
22:57 < Eli> ROFL
22:57 < Atahualpa> But do you also have water?
22:57 < Atahualpa> HA!
22:57 < Eli> ROFL again :DD
22:57 <@ACS_Solver> Nope, that's promised next year!
23:00 < Eli> Hmph. I didnt know Latvia is the poorest of the Baltic states... I thought they were the richest, with solver living there and all. :cute:
23:01 <@ACS_Solver> I have more money than the country's budget :)
23:01 <@Locutus> argh, I've been offline for most of the day and now I have like 3 pages worth of threads to catch up on. any interesting new stuff revealed today (beyond the gold news)?
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23:02 < Eli> I told you, there's no Civ4. Forget about it.
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23:02 < Atahualpa> hey settler!#
23:02 < Atahualpa> dammit, too slow
23:02 < Senethro> Yeah, this "gold" news their talking about is actually a re-release of Civ3 with Civ1s combat.
23:02 <@ACS_Solver> Not really, Locutus. Other than Friedrich revealing himself as a tester and me revealing how he had kicked my butt, and him revealing beating Markos ;)
23:02 <@Locutus> nevermind though, he's a rude fellow, never says anything back ;)
23:02 <@Locutus> ah, ok. nothing new then :)
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23:04 <@ACS_Solver> Locutus, on the release day we should arrange a game with the entire ACS staff against Markos!
23:04 < Atahualpa> Isn't Markos the weakest player?
23:04 <@Locutus> that would be boring, it'd be over in under an hour ;)
23:05 <@ACS_Solver> Under an hour? More like 20 minutes
23:05 <@Locutus> I was trying to be nice ;)
23:06 <@ACS_Solver> Or an entire staff vs. Friedrich game. And we'd lose.
23:07 < Atahualpa> What's Friedrich's favorite civ/leader ?
23:07 <@Locutus> in under 20 mins too :)
23:07 < Eli> Who's Friedrich?
23:08 <@Locutus> uber-uber-uber leet civ MP player. wrote the civ4 strat guide.
23:08 < Eli> There's a Civ4 strat guide already?
23:09 <@Locutus> I think it comes out in late november or so
23:09 < Eli> Oh, you mean the one they release with the game?
23:09 < Eli> ok.
23:10 <@Locutus> not with the game, but you know the bradygames type of thing (not sure if that's the publisher though), but this time actually worth the paper its printed on
23:10 <@ACS_Solver> Friedrich's favorite civ is anyone as he wins anyway :p
23:10 <@ACS_Solver> BradyGames is the publisher I'm 90% sure
23:10 < Eli> Hrmph.
23:10 <@ACS_Solver> Given that the guide is written by one of the top players and the currently-best Civ4 player, it's worth it indeed
23:11 <@ACS_Solver> BTW, only one person has managed to beat Deity thus far.
23:12 < Eli> Crazyness. I beat Emperor once in Civ3 and that's the highlight of my civing.
23:12 <@ACS_Solver> :D Civ3 Emperor is boring. You just have to MM a lot to win.
23:12 < Eli> MM?
23:12 < Atahualpa> MM is boring too
23:12 <@ACS_Solver> Exploiting things like shield carryover that the AI can;t
23:12 <@ACS_Solver> MM = micromanage
23:12 < Eli> Nah, never did that. It's boring as hell.
23:13 < Atahualpa> I found Emperor to be easier with Rise and Rule
23:13 <@Locutus> the blatant AI cheating takes the fun out anyway, I don't expect I'll play higher than 1 or 2 levels over Noble, whatever it's called
23:13 < Eli> I borrowed a strategy from one of the threads on Poly. Expand like crazy-> Prebuild GLib->0 research until Education and by that time you're the biggest and richest and it's a cakewalk.
23:13 < Atahualpa> I thought the AI wouldn't cheat that much in Civ4?
23:14 < Atahualpa> Unfortunately "expand like crazy" doesn't seem to be the greatest for Civ4
23:14 <@ACS_Solver> The AI doesn't have any gameplay cheats such as knowing where resources are
23:14 < Atahualpa> or which city is your worst-defended one?
23:14 <@ACS_MarkG> i'm a casual gamer, not a weak player!
23:14 <@ACS_Solver> Doesn't know that either.
23:15 < Eli> Yeah, I wondered about that. How many cities will I be able to build during the first expansion rush before running into problems?
23:15 <@Locutus> from what I understand the AI still gets some bonuses (not sure if at start or during the game too)
23:15 <@ACS_Solver> The Civ4 AI only knows what a human would know under the same circumstances.
23:15 <@ACS_Solver> Locutus - production bonuses and the like, yes, on higher difficulties, but no "cheats"
23:17 <@Locutus> those are a form of cheating too, in a way. yes, it's not so bad as gameplay cheats but going up against an AI that can build, grow, buy 100% faster or whatever just isn't my idea of a fun night
23:18 < Atahualpa> my idea of a fun night is generally very different from that :naughty:
23:18 <@ACS_Solver> Agreed, but I find that a small bonus, like 10%, is fun. Still feels like a fair playing ground. Plus the Civ4 AI actually does do smart things...
23:20 <@Locutus> yeah, like I said I'm sure I'll have fun on 1 or 2 levels over Noble or whatever, but Emperor and Deity is for the real die-hards, just not my cup of tea...
23:20 <@Locutus> there are many different ways to have a night of fun ;)
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23:23 < Senethro> meh
23:25 < Atahualpa> lots of fun here
23:25 < Atahualpa> :bored: forums are boring as well.... geez if there'd be civ4 already
23:26 <@ACS_Solver> there is :cute:
23:26 < Senethro> Civ4 will kill my coursework.
23:26 < Atahualpa> civ4 will fuck my master thesis
23:26 <@ACS_Solver> civ4 has ruied my life
23:27 < Atahualpa> didn't take much then, eh?
23:27 < Senethro> Maybe I shouldn't buy it :S
23:27 < Eli> Good night everyone
23:27 -!- Eli [~moshe8000@bzq-82-81-76-205.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ]
23:27 <@ACS_Solver> You shouldn;t
23:27 <@ACS_Solver> Life-ruining game!
23:27 < Senethro> I mean, I've managed to kill my ability to play all previous games through over playing.
23:27 < Senethro> I can't touch anything except PBEM AC.
23:29 < quantum_mechani> I bet you have not played Dominions ;)
23:29 < Senethro> Nope.
23:30 < quantum_mechani> well, I suggest you at least try the demo, it is the obly strategy game I have ever found better than SMAC
23:30 < quantum_mechani> *only
23:31 < Senethro> link?
23:31 -!- Ennet [~e@c-c823e255.1242-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #apolyton
23:31 < Ennet> Aloha
23:32 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has joined #apolyton
23:32 < quantum_mechani> http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/1.htm
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23:32 < Atahualpa> hello ennet
23:32 < quantum_mechani> it is very different from SMAC though... which is why I'm hoping civ 4 will be closer
23:33 < Ennet> hey there :) what are you all doing here? have i missed something?
23:33 < Atahualpa> civ4 is cancelled
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23:37 -!- Dale [~dale@60-240-90-182-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #Apolyton
23:37 < Dale> Hey all.  :)
23:38 < Ennet> hey :)
23:38 < Dale> Woo for Gold.
23:38 <@Locutus> hey
23:38 < Dale> Hey Loc
23:38 <@ACS_Solver> Daaale :)
23:39 < Dale> Hey Solver.  :)
23:39 < Atahualpa> hi
23:39 <@Locutus> so, when can we except the release of Diplomod? ;)
23:40 < Dale> hahahaha.  Nah, but I've got a few other things in mind.  ;)
23:40 < Dale> I'll leave diplomacy to Pete.
23:40 <@Locutus> yeah, he's not incapable at that...
23:41 < Dale> So are you going to be looking to mod anything into cIV?
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23:42 <@Locutus> oh, I have some ideas...
23:42 < Senethro> Yes. With any luck, SMAC.
23:42 <@Locutus> will have to look into that Python thingie, sounds like it could be interesting :cute:
23:42 < Atahualpa> that's not a mod, that'd be a total conversion.. you'll surely need the SDK for that
23:42 <@ACS_Solver> Maybe you could even use it to script a scenario :)
23:42 < Senethro> Tru dat.
23:43 < Dale> Pffft.  If I wanted to play in the future I'd play Smac.  Sorry, but I feel leave cIV in the past.
23:43 < Senethro> :P
23:43 < Senethro> SMAC with culture, great leaders and XP based unit promotions. Hmmmm.
23:43 < Dale> I wonder if you can script events, and new units and stuff?
23:43 < Senethro> New units is easy.
23:44 <@Locutus> I'm thinking something WWII... or maybe Africa... ;)
23:44 -!- Ennet is now known as Ennet|Nadish
23:44 < Dale> I meant adding units during the game.
23:44 < Atahualpa> recreating the unit workshop ;)
23:45 < Dale> I wouldn't mind seeing a scenario from Hastings.... from 1000AD.
23:45 < Senethro> Really, the Unit workshop is the hardest bit of a SMAC total conversion.
23:45 < Atahualpa> I've thought about unit workshops for civ-series a lot... but I never was quite satisfied... my idea is some kind of rpg like equiping screen (similar to diablo, diablo2)
23:45 < Senethro> Every other SMAC feature is in Civ4 already in some form.
23:45 < Dale> Recreate that medieval Euro stuff.
23:46 < Dale> Progging the AI to use a workshop would be a nightmare!!!!
23:46 < Senethro> Heh.
23:46 < Dale> I can only see it using it like the smac one.
23:46 <@Locutus> meh, not a European history fan. web, Transalpine Europe anyway
23:46 < Dale> And a bad AI creates a BAAAAD scenario.
23:46 < Senethro> Probably just make it easy for the AI and only give them rovers or best/best infantry.
23:46 < Atahualpa> I think that's not so difficult, take the best available and maybe some predefined types
23:47 < Dale> But a human will define their units to take advantage of weaknesses of other's units.  An AI couldn't do that.
23:48 < Atahualpa> I think it'd be doable
23:48 <@Locutus> unit workshop is bad, bad, bad design because the AI can never deal with it as well as a human
23:48 < Dale> That's the dificulty.  You're proposing a static AI workshop.  Static AI's create loopholes for humans.
23:48 < Atahualpa> fix the loopholes as they appear
23:49  * Dale can see Soren shuddering at the sound of "static AI"
23:49 < Dale> That's reactive programming.  NO programmer wants to do that.  No no no no no.
23:49 <@Locutus> I think promotions are a natural evolution from a unit workshop, why regress back?
23:49 < Senethro> Locutus: why not have both?
23:49 < Dale> Yeah I think the promos will work better than we expect.
23:49 < Atahualpa> because we also want to experiment?
23:50 <@Locutus> because unit workshop is bad bad bad game design...
23:50 < Senethro> Only for single players.
23:50 < Dale> Do mods work in MP though?  Hasn't been confirmed from what I've seen.
23:50 < Dale> MP might only be for vanilla.
23:50 < Atahualpa> btw, if the AI can cope with promotions, why should it not be possible to cope with a unit workshop?
23:51 < Senethro> MOdded SMAC has worked in PBEMS, as has modded Civ3. I'm sure Civ4 will be up to it.
23:51 -!- Lemmy [~lemmy@lemmy.xs4all.nl] has joined #apolyton
23:51 < Lemmy> .
23:51 < Senethro> hi lemmy
23:51 < Atahualpa> hi
23:51 < Dale> Workshop is pre-emptive.  Promos are re-active.  Very very very hard to make a good pre-emptive AI.
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23:52 < Atahualpa> promos are preemptive as well, if you plan to take a city you
23:52 < Senethro> do I remember you popping into the AC: creation forum lemmy?
23:52 < Atahualpa> 'll want to build up units with city attacker promo
23:52 < Dale> That's a reaction.  You want the city so you create a unit to do it.  ;)
23:53 < Atahualpa> so in what way is a workshop different?
23:53 < Senethro> Ata: Workshop is more flexible.
23:53 <@Locutus> btw, Dale, wanted to point you to this thread in the CtP2 forums: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139808, would be cool to hear your thoughts on it (long thread though, no need to rush reading/replying, I'm going to bed soon anyway)
23:53 < Dale> You get a new template: "Hmmm... what will the opponent build?  How can I build a unit better?"  That's pre-emptive
23:53 < Atahualpa> how do you know he wanted to point me there ^^
23:54 < Dale> Ok Loc
23:54 < Senethro> With workshop I can make a paratrooper police unit with no armour/gun so its cheap and keeps the peace. I can make a unit any 3 of fast/tough/offensive/cheap.
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23:57 < Atahualpa> Well the AI would have to constantly evaluate its strategy and find good solutions.... which actually would be my special field... I am specializing in evolutionary algorithms
23:57 < Ennet|Nadish> the preemtive AI could be solved by creating predone alternatives for the AI
23:57 < Ennet|Nadish> if doing a unit workshop
23:57 < Atahualpa> they said they'd not want static AIs
23:57 < Dale> Loc I'll come back to that thread.  For now I gotta go.
23:57 < Dale> Static AI's bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:57 <@Locutus> yeah, like I said no rush, long thread.
23:57  * Dale shakes head
23:57 < Ennet|Nadish> well doesn't need to be worse!! 
23:57 < Atahualpa> oops I misread... I am too drunk
23:58 < Senethro> If you can create a non-static AI that can understand supply crawlers, you'll probalby win a Nobel prize ;)
23:58 < Dale> Static AI creates an AI that can't cope with the features of the game.  Look at SMAC.  It couldn't cope with the features there, and the AI in that was mostly static!
23:58 < Dale> Anyways, bye.  :)
23:58 -!- Dale [~dale@60-240-90-182-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: ]
23:58 <@Locutus> there is no nobel price for CS :mad:
23:58 < Senethro> :)
23:59 <@Locutus> we nerds are being discriminated, we demand equal treatment :doitnow!:
--- Day changed Thu Oct 20 2005
00:00 < Atahualpa> there's the turing test :)
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00:02 <@Locutus> I know some nerds who wouldn't pass that one... ;)
00:03 < Ennet|Nadish> what is the turing test? :o
00:04 < Senethro> go check out wikipedia
00:04 < Atahualpa> you've got to write a program, that other people chat with and recognize as human, if they do, you've won 100,000 dollars or so
00:06 <@Locutus> err, no you don't. turing test is just a proposed test if a computer can pass as human, there's no prize connected to it. it's a scientific theory, sort of...
00:07 < Atahualpa> In 1991 Dr. Hugh Loebner  started the annual Loebner Prize competition. A $100,000 prize is offered to the author of the first computer program to pass an unrestricted Turing test.
00:08 <@Locutus> ah, well, that's the Loebner Prize then, not the Turing test.
00:08 < Atahualpa> sigh
00:08 <@Locutus> the Turing test was devised in the 1940s IIRC
00:09 < Senethro> Turing was da man.
00:09 <@Locutus> I'd QFT if I could quote in here ;)
00:10 < Atahualpa> oh great, I just started chatting with the winner of the loebner prize 2003...
00:11 < Atahualpa> Me: hi, just checking. You've won the loebner prize I saw
00:11 < Atahualpa> and his reply: What the hell is that? :rolleyes:
00:11 <@Locutus> :lol:
00:11 <@Locutus> not quite there yet, then :)
00:11 < Atahualpa> not _quite_
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00:14 < Atahualpa> omg, that one is as stupid as a rock.. talking to my cats is funnier
00:15 <@Locutus> bots are stupid, throw rocks at them
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00:16 < Alva> wow!!! crowded...for once. ;)
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00:16 < Alva> hi all
00:16 <@Locutus> it will be again next week
00:16 < Rhye> hi all
00:16 <@Locutus> hey rhye, alva
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00:18 < Atahualpa> hi
00:19 <@Locutus> anyway, gonna hit the sack. CU all next week hopefully...
00:19 < Atahualpa> good night
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00:20 < Atahualpa> I guess I join... some thousand kilometers away... good night folks
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00:39 -!- ACS_MarkG changed the topic of #apolyton to: Apolyton Chat: Civ4 coming Otober 25 - http://civilization.net
00:39 -!- ACS_MarkG changed the topic of #apolyton to: Apolyton Chat: Civ4 coming Otober 25 - http://civilization4.net
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00:48 < ACS_DanQ> Good evening, everyone.
00:48 < Chieftess> hi
00:48 < ACS_DanQ> Morning/afternoon, what have you. :)
00:49 < Lemmy> Night.
00:49 < Chieftess> Shouldn't Otober be October? :)
00:49 < ACS_DanQ> Night Lemmy.
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00:49 -!- ACS_MarkG changed the topic of #apolyton to: Apolyton Chat: Civ4 coming October 25 - http://civilization4.net
00:49 <@ACS_MarkG>  it's in german :)
00:50 < Chieftess> That would be Oktober
00:50 < Chieftess> :)
00:50 <@ACS_MarkG> it's a german with a cold
00:50 < Chieftess> haha
00:50 -!- mode/#apolyton [+o ACS_DanQ] by ACS_MarkG
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00:52 < Ennet|Nadish> :)
00:54 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
00:59 < Ennet|Nadish> 8 days to Civ4 =)
01:01 <@ACS_DanQ> Smiles all around!
01:01 < Chieftess> I thought it was 6
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01:02 < Alva> Any word on the first patch? :D ;)
01:02 < Ennet|Nadish> depends on where you live, 5 if you're in NA :)
01:02 < Ennet|Nadish> lol Alva :P
01:02 < Chieftess> haha
01:03 < Ennet|Nadish> I havn't seen any shipping date for Europe, but it says the 28th on a coupple of retailers sites (sweden)
01:03 < Ennet|Nadish> anyone got any kind of idea?
01:04 < Alva> I heard it would be available next friday in Belgium
01:04 <@ACS_DanQ> Seven days until it ships, yes, but maybe Nadish is taking into account shipping time for those who have ordered it to be delivered by mail.
01:04 < Alva> so the 28th sounds correct
01:05 < Alva> brb
01:05 < Ennet|Nadish> cool, thanks dan :)
01:06 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
01:07 <@ACS_MarkG> good night fols
01:07 <@ACS_MarkG> folks :)
01:07 <@ACS_MarkG> damn cold
01:07 < Ennet|Nadish> night
01:08 -!- ACS_MarkG [~mark@ppp4-adsl01-147.the.forthnet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:08 <@ACS_DanQ> G'night!
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01:19 < Canuck> hey Civers
01:19 < Chieftess> hi
01:20 <@ACS_DanQ> Hey Canuck.
01:20 < Canuck> hey CT, Dan
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01:32 <@ACS_DanQ> Anybody who wants to see the third part of Solver's "CivIV" preview...
01:32 < Ennet|Nadish> me! ;)
01:33 <@ACS_DanQ> ... will want to keep watching apolyton.net for its publishing.
01:33 <@ACS_DanQ> :D
01:33 <@ACS_DanQ> (I'm such a tease ;))
01:33 < Ennet|Nadish> evil there! :p
01:34 < Chieftess> You really think the civ community can take this week long community-media blitz? :)
01:35 < Chieftess> It's like dangling a drug in front of a recovering addict for a week.
01:35 <@ACS_DanQ> Absolutely. :)
01:35 < Alva> Nice review there btw Chieftess :)
01:35 < Chieftess> thanks
01:36 <@ACS_DanQ> Does that make me a pusher then? Hrmm... ;))
01:36 < Canuck> wel.....
01:36 <@ACS_DanQ> Yes -- enjoyed the read, Chieftess.
01:37 < Canuck> my problem is all I can think about is everything that's NOT in the preview
01:37 < Ennet|Nadish> Oh, the CFC previews, ah now i know from where i recognized you :)
01:37 < Canuck> the problem of being a tester :-/
01:38 <@ACS_DanQ> Who's the tease now? ;)
01:38 <@ACS_DanQ> Seriously though, Canuck, I hear what you're saying.
01:38 <@ACS_DanQ> We've worked to put together as much as possible.
01:38 < Canuck> yes I wish Firaxis would let more detailed reviews go in the last 2 weeks
01:39 < Alva> Who's says there's anything left not covered?
01:39 <@ACS_DanQ> No comment.
01:39 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
01:39 < Canuck> it's kinda stupid to not be able to talk able the mechanics of MP
01:39 < Alva> we need some surprises for when we actually have the game in our hands
01:40 < Canuck> just because they never let anyone see how to directIP into a game'
01:40 < Alva> there will be plenty of time for that. ;)
01:40 < Alva> mmechanics I mean
01:40 < Chieftess> [19:37] <Canuck> the problem of being a tester :-/
01:40 < Chieftess> yeah, especially reading the forums.
01:40 < Canuck> ya I know but the faith readers of poly and CFC will just have to wait :-P
01:40 < Chieftess> "Yeah, that's in! But I can't tell you that". ;)
01:40 < Ennet|Nadish> I want to hear about the AI, and why navals are of better use in this game
01:40 < Alva> lol
01:41 < Canuck> faithful
01:41 < Chieftess> faith readers?
01:41 < Chieftess> Been testing religion a bit too much? :D
01:41 < Alva> hehe
01:41 < Canuck> hey I have a pre-release edition coming that looks like a bible :-P
01:41 <@ACS_DanQ> Nadish: keep your browser pointed to apolyton.net in the coming weeks. That's all I can say.
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01:42 <@ACS_DanQ> Moving along from that point... :)
01:42 < Canuck> come the week of the 25th much more will become clearer
01:42 < Alva> indeed it will
01:43  * Alva looks forward seeing a 1000 "I've got it!!!!" threads ;)
01:43 <@ACS_DanQ> lol
01:43 < Ennet|Nadish> @Dan: My browser been pointed in that directon more or less irregulary since at least 1999 ;)
01:43 <@ACS_DanQ> We're going to work to confine those kind of posts to a single thread.
01:43 <@ACS_DanQ> Nadish: :))
01:44 < Chieftess> My browser used to be pointed at the Ultimate civ2 Site way back when. 
01:44 < Chieftess> :)
01:44 <@ACS_DanQ> Ah :))
01:44 < Chieftess> Then colege came, so no Apolyton
01:44 < Chieftess> But I did lurk in the archives.
01:44 < Chieftess> for Civ2 maps.
01:44 < Chieftess> I was on the really OLD board.
01:45 < Chieftess> Not sure what my nick was then.
01:45 < Chieftess> Could've been my real name.
01:45 <@ACS_DanQ> Remember my old nick?
01:45 < Chieftess> I remember the site, but not your nick. :p
01:46 < Canuck> I was a member of the UC2S
01:46 < Canuck> and the FGCS
01:46 < Chieftess> I remember reading about The First Greek Civ2 Site there, too.
01:46 <@ACS_DanQ> Great, Canuck -- was Canuck your handle then too?
01:46 < Canuck> think I was TrueNorth then
01:46 < Chieftess> And an article about "when simple gaming sites grow and start to merge".
01:46 < Chieftess> That was just before Apolyton.
01:46 <@ACS_DanQ> My nick was "The Emperor".
01:46 < Ennet|Nadish> Hmmmm that Ultimate civ2 site had a lot of map downloads?
01:46 <@ACS_DanQ> Chieftess: where did you read this article?
01:47 < Canuck> when Civ2MGE came out I used played on Civleague/Gameleague
01:47 <@ACS_DanQ> Nadish: a moderate amount at least. More scenarios/MODs.
01:47 <@ACS_DanQ> (If memory serves correctly)
01:47 < Canuck> at the MS Gaming Zone
01:47 <@ACS_DanQ> You can see the site's old archive through apolyton.net/dir
01:47 < Chieftess> I think it was on TUC2S (or Markos' site). I know I read it somewhere. :)
01:47 <@ACS_DanQ> Ah. I would like to read that again if possible. :)
01:48 < Canuck> think I played Civ2MGE MP as DarkStorm
01:48 <@ACS_DanQ> Heck... I'm not sure I still have a copy of the merger announcement anymore. :-O
01:48 < Canuck> ages ago now :-/
01:48 < Chieftess> www.archive.org might help.
01:48 <@ACS_DanQ> Tried earlier this year -- no luck. :(
01:48 <@ACS_DanQ> Markos might still have a copy... will ask him next time I think about this.
01:49 < Chieftess> www.paris.web66/civ2/civfaq.htm <-- bottom post.
01:49 < Chieftess> Look familar? :)
01:49 <@ACS_DanQ> One moment :)
01:49 < Chieftess> Found your old nick there
01:49 < Chieftess> that was a guest book
01:49 <@ACS_DanQ> Ah -- neat!
01:50 < Chieftess> looking at gamestats in archives.org
01:50 <@ACS_DanQ> Some other 'ol names on there too I recognize.
01:50 < Chieftess> hmm, it didn't keep track of that one
01:50 <@ACS_DanQ> 'k Chieftess. I looked there too earlier... perhaps I missed something, or something has been (re-)added since.
01:50 < Chieftess> ah, took out the site.html :)
01:50 < Chieftess> that's better
01:51 <@ACS_DanQ> Speaking of all this history...
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01:51 <@ACS_DanQ> Have any of you read "The Ultimate Journey" on Apolyton? First volume in a hopeful serial on the history of ACS.
01:51 <@ACS_DanQ> Hey quantum_mechani.
01:51 <@ACS_DanQ> It was published in five parts between between mid-August and the end of September.
01:51 < quantum_mechani> hi
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01:52 < Chieftess> interesting
01:52 -!- settler [[U2FsdGVkX@67.15.24.46] has quit [Quit: settler]
01:52 <@ACS_DanQ> Yes, Chieftess?
01:52 < Chieftess> The parachat (on civ2.gamestats.com using archive.org) still works
01:52 < Chieftess> Go to www.archive.org and type in civ2.gamestats.com
01:52 < Chieftess> and click on the first archive link, and go to the chatroom 
01:53 < Chieftess> then parachat
01:53 < Chieftess> That's where I am right now. :)
01:53 <@ACS_DanQ> !
01:54 <@ACS_DanQ> Neat.
01:55 < Chieftess> An old relic! And it still works! 
01:55 <@ACS_DanQ> OK. Neat and scary. :)
01:55 < Chieftess> looking at the news
01:55 < Chieftess> yeah,
01:55 <@ACS_DanQ> To access the feature I'm referring to, see http://apolyton.net/about/10/126/
01:55 < Chieftess> a little disconcering to see old stuff working
01:56 < Chieftess> missing page
01:56 <@ACS_DanQ> Don't forget the "/" at the end
01:56 < Chieftess> ah, ok
01:56 <@ACS_DanQ> I understand how it can be a little strange sounding. It took me a bit to get used too.
01:58 < Chieftess> My favorite section on the old site was the Viking Scribes
01:58 <@ACS_DanQ> You know what? Same here.
01:58 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
01:59 < Chieftess> I don't think you put any of my story submissions up there. ;)
01:59 < Chieftess> (looking for emails that say jgasioro@bcpl.net)
01:59 < Chieftess> which doesn't work anymore.
02:00 <@ACS_DanQ> I apologize on behalf of my younger self. Lazy bastard. ;))
02:00 < Chieftess> I sent you about 2 or 3 of them. :)
02:00 < Chieftess> And that was almost 10 years ago
02:00 <@ACS_DanQ> OK... real lazy bastard. ;D
02:00 <@ACS_DanQ> Yeah.
02:01 <@ACS_DanQ> *shudder*
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02:05 < Chieftess> whoa! The guestbook still works!
02:05 <@ACS_DanQ> Stop scaring me. ;))
02:06 < Chieftess> http://htmlgear.tripod.com/gw/guest/control.guest?u=civilizationii
02:07 <@ACS_DanQ> I get an error message.
02:07 <@ACS_DanQ> Oh well.
02:07 < Chieftess> probably typed it wrong 
02:07 < Chieftess> just go to archive.org and go to the first link/guestbook
02:07 < Chieftess> :)
02:09 <@ACS_DanQ> Ah yes.
02:09 <@ACS_DanQ> http://www.htmlgear.tripod.com/gw/guest/control.guest?u=civilizationii&a=view&i=1&r=
02:09 <@ACS_DanQ> 79 pages... :yikes:
02:09 <@ACS_DanQ> Didn't remember that.
02:10 <@ACS_DanQ> I'm surprised Tripod hasn't yanked it since.
02:10 <@ACS_DanQ> :b: to your signing it.
02:10 <@ACS_DanQ> What they hey. :)
02:10 < Chieftess> "Centuries later...." :) (or years later in this case)
02:10 <@ACS_DanQ> hehehehe
02:11 <@ACS_DanQ> Everybody else must be thinking... *yawn*
02:11 <@ACS_DanQ> ;)
02:11 < Chieftess> yeah
02:12 <@ACS_DanQ> Too bad for them. ;D
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02:12 < Chieftess> I wonder if I have anything saved on any floppies (probably not...). My old PC is long gone.
02:12 <@ACS_DanQ> Briefly back to thes Scribes... I wrote one. :)
02:12 <@ACS_DanQ> http://web.archive.org/web/19980421024338/http://civ2.gamestats.com/vikingscribes/story3.txt
02:13 < Chieftess> yeah, I read those. :)
02:13 <@ACS_DanQ> If you indeed come across any 'historical docs', Chieftess, please let me know (email or PM).
02:15 < Chieftess> I remember writing "A tale of two cities", which was about 2 cities I built in Asia (started as a European civ), and conquered the world with them.
02:16 <@ACS_DanQ> I think I may have a nostalgic weekend ahead of me. :)
02:16 < Chieftess> heh
02:17 < Chieftess> I remember there were other sites that TUC2S used to be hosted on.. 
02:17 < Chieftess> I read that thing about miningco
02:17 < Chieftess> I'm trying to remember what the sites where exactly
02:18 <@ACS_DanQ> You can read up on UCIVII's history through that URL I posted earlier.
02:18 < Alva> Ok, why does CFC keep crashing on me? Is that a known thing Chieftess?
02:18 < Chieftess> It doesn't like you. :)
02:18 <@ACS_DanQ> Just before GameStats, UCIVII was hosted by Aim4Game (defunct too now).
02:18 < Alva> :p
02:18 <@ACS_DanQ> So http://www.aim4game.com/civ2
02:19 <@ACS_DanQ> Before that, Mulberry my then ISP ( http://civ2.mulberry.com ), and Glubco before/after ( http://www.glubco.com/civ2 )
02:20 <@ACS_DanQ> Before that Dreamscape (the exact URL I think is that history feature somewhere), and before that the University of Syracuse's website...
02:20 <@ACS_DanQ> but UoS... that came and went before I even visited UCIVII for the first time.
02:20 < Chieftess> I remember when the "engineering sketch" was first used (the one with several lines, and circles)
02:21 <@ACS_DanQ> Oh yes... as to when Solver's third and final preview part will be published, see:
02:21 <@ACS_DanQ> http://apolyton.net/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=4068094
02:21 <@ACS_DanQ> Er heck.
02:21 <@ACS_DanQ> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4068094#post4068094
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02:24 < Chieftess> I remember there were 2 versions of forums on the old site (I was on the first, and posted regularly, then I think you switched software or something -- I still registered on the 2nd one)
02:24 < Chieftess> Then Apolyton was formed, and I was busy with college. :)
02:24 < Chieftess> And the rest, is history.
02:24 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
02:24 <@ACS_DanQ> Yeah, eventually UCIVII's forums were hosted on another server.
02:25 <@ACS_DanQ> I believe it was Kent Wang's server, or at the very least he administered it.
02:25 <@ACS_DanQ> Very little known fact likely: one of my "RL" friends was on UCIVII's staff for a short period of time (a few months).
02:26 <@ACS_DanQ> He received saved games and posted results from them.
02:26 <@ACS_DanQ> With his respects, he then politely quit. :)
02:28 < Chieftess> that status bar scroll on the old site sure moves fast..
02:28 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
02:28 < Chieftess> And to think it's been like that for 8 years!
02:28 <@ACS_DanQ> No doubt.
02:28 < Chieftess> Last update: 4/19/98
02:29 <@ACS_DanQ> heh heh
02:29 <@ACS_DanQ> Well, I've got to dash.
02:29 < Chieftess> Sounds like a scene from some 80s movie where they show a ghosttown or something
02:29 <@ACS_DanQ> Enjoyed chatting with everyone!
02:29 <@ACS_DanQ> :)
02:29 < Chieftess> a modern ghosttown with stuff still working
02:29 < Chieftess> and runnign for ages.
02:29 <@ACS_DanQ> You're still scaring me. ;)
02:30 < Chieftess> Actually, "The Day of the Comet" (?) is like that
02:30 < Chieftess> boo! :p
02:30 <@ACS_DanQ> In the spirit of the historical references in this chat...
02:30 <@ACS_DanQ> I'll sign off like I used to in my emails 'back in the day'.
02:30 < Chieftess> Hey, it's October! :D
02:30 < Chieftess> Keep on civ'ing!
02:30 <@ACS_DanQ> It's been a while for sure...
02:30 <@ACS_DanQ> You too, Chieftess.
02:30 <@ACS_DanQ> TTYL
02:31 <@ACS_DanQ> (there it is :))
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02:35 < Chieftess> hi
02:35 < Soren> yo
02:35 < homegrown|log> Three cheers for Soren!
02:36 < Soren> thank you...
02:38 < Chieftess> Now it gets quiet in here... After Dan and I were reminenscing the old Ultimate Civ2 Site.
02:39 < Soren> yeah, pretty quiet... I guess I should have popped in earlier in the day.
02:40 < Chieftess> Come over to #civfanatics. :) (irc.irc-chat.net)
02:40 < Chieftess> granted, it's quiet there, too.
02:41 < Soren> hey, they're Java chat actually works!
02:41 < Chieftess> heh
02:41 < Soren> ur... what do I have to type in over ther...
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02:42 < Chieftess> Some fantastic Sorenesque statement? :)
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02:42 < Soren> maybe all my replies should only be three words, max
02:42 < Chieftess> yeah. That's good. 
02:43 < Soren> It's a big day, but not as big as next Tuesday. Still, just wanted to poke my head in. Can't believe it's been 4 years since Civ3 went Gold.
02:43 < Chieftess> yeah
02:43 < Chieftess> Just one more turn lasted a little too long. :)
02:44 < Chieftess> I remember lurking on Apolyton when the Civ3 previews/discussion was going on.
02:44 < Chieftess> And culture was announced.
02:45 < Chieftess> Hope Trip didn't drink too much there. ;)
02:45 < Chieftess> for the Gold party
02:45 < Soren> tsk-tsk... no drinking for minors! (actually, I didn't notice if he snagged any champagne)
02:47 < Chieftess> I was kind of surprised to see a history major turn scripter. :) (too bad I got an internship before knoing about the testing session then)
02:47 < Chieftess> History Major 1 - Comp. Sci. Major 0
02:47 < Chieftess> Ok, so I see where the history major would have an advantage...
02:47 < Soren> hey, I'm a History major!
02:48 < Chieftess> I thought you were a Comp. Sci. major? :)
02:48 < Soren> Early on, Firaxis took a bit of pride in hiring non-CS major programmers. Times have changed though...
02:49 < Soren> Nope, just a Master's... common misperception. (I dropped the double major to get out of school a quarter early... am missing elective credits)
02:49 < Chieftess> I was taking a minor in German, but then they dismantled the language courses at Towson..
02:50 < Soren> d'oh... there's an official Poly chat next week, right?
02:50 < homegrown|log> yeah, i think there is a release party next tuesday
02:50 < Chieftess> CFC should have one too. ;)
02:51 < Chieftess> How about the day before the release?
02:51 < Chieftess> Shipping Chat! :yeah:
02:51 < homegrown|log> heh  Topic: We're tracking our shipments!
02:51 < homegrown|log> bet you wish for infinite railroads now, don't you?  :p
02:52 < Chieftess> haha
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02:54 < Ennet|Nadish> i like the movement limit on RR
02:55 < Ennet|Nadish> Civilization seems more balanced and thought-throught than ever before
02:56 < Chieftess> I love Soren's coding. :)
02:58 < Ennet|Nadish> hehe
02:58 < Ennet|Nadish> the promise of improved AI is if true, the best coding :)
02:59 < Ennet|Nadish> improvement imo
02:59 < Chieftess> Always remember! "Soren IS the AI!" - CFC quote.
03:00 < Soren> well, it better be better. I put a lot more time into the AI this time around. And avoiding a lot of old mistakes.
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03:00 < Soren> Doing the same task twice as a programmer - and being able to start from scratch - makes a huge idfference,
03:00 < Chieftess> I've done the same in some ways.
03:01 < Chieftess> Analyzed/designed/coded an application during my intership with the State of Maryland, and now I'm looking at it again thinking, "You know, I could've coded this that way... ", "Maybe I should make this more dynamic"
03:01 < Chieftess> :)
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03:02 < Chieftess> Granted, it's more data and calculations... no AI though.
03:02 < Chieftess> Although I know some of my co-workers would like that...
03:02 < Canuck> hey Soren
03:03 < Canuck> sorry was away picking the wife up
03:03 < Chieftess> Plus, the application I made, I was trying to figure out the previous programmer's code. (yes, and bugs did fly)
03:03 < Chieftess> I thought of Civ3 when I was working with ti.
03:03 < Chieftess> *it
03:04 < PeteT> Hi, everyone. What's the topic?
03:04 < Chieftess> Programming. 
03:04 < Canuck> hey Pete
03:04 < Ennet|Nadish> A question regarding the AI, if you can give answers at this time, does the AI treat AIs much more favorably than the Human like in Civ3?
03:04 < Soren> of course, this time around, people will actually get to see the real AI code, so I've had to make sure it's in good shape.
03:05 < Chieftess> heh
03:06 < Chieftess> I've learned from it, too.
03:06 < Chieftess> More than any of my college textbooks could tell me.
03:06 < Soren> the AI doesn't treat other AI's differently from the human. This was true in Civ3 as well. However, often the human will do things that are really unnusual (like leaving all their cities empty) so the AI will tend to repsond to that in a certain, which often makes palyers feel llike the AI is treating them differently.
03:07 < PeteT> Soren, can you reveal anything about what you're planning on doing with the dll code before the release of the SDK
03:07 < Soren> Also, I should add, it is actually impossible for the AI-AI relations to be the same as AI-Human relations. It's just fundamentally different, but there is no if (isHuman()) declareWar();, if that's what you mean.
03:08 < Soren> well, the code's mostly ready, but we need to tidy it up, comment it, etc. Things we obviously haven't wanted to spend time on right before shipping....
03:08 < Ennet|Nadish> I wasn't actually refeering to the whole game play, just thinking of the civ3 AI tradebonus
03:08 < Chieftess> I guess those comments should increase by 99%. :)
03:09 < PeteT> What Chieftess said
03:09 < Soren> out-of-date comments are worse than no comments...
03:09 < Chieftess> I remember my C++ classes... our teachers would take off points if we didn't comment precisely
03:09 < Chieftess> Even one uncommented line had points taken off.
03:11 < Soren> well, that's a good example. There is no objective way to say what the "tradebonus" value should be in a fair way. Does the human at times trade away techs for less than market value just so they can get "something" for them? Yes, they do. Are they cheating? No, they aren't. If the AI does that, is it cheating? Well, it doesn't really matter because it feels wrong to players. The AI cannot play like a human - it would lead to a very unfun game.
03:11 < Soren> actually, though, the tradebonus thing isn't in Civ4. I guess we didn't need it. There are other things in place that slow down tech trading.
03:12 < Soren> ok, gotta run... have a date with the playoffs...
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03:12 < PeteT> So long.
03:12 < Ennet|Nadish> thanks :)
03:12 < Ennet|Nadish> and take care
03:14 < Ennet|Nadish> And I do understand the imcapassative of the AI acting as a human.
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03:15 < Ennet|Nadish> Im just hoping the micromanagement & exploitation of AI weaknesess versus large AI bonuses
03:15 < Ennet|Nadish> is over
03:15 < Ennet|Nadish> at higher difficulties
03:16 < Ennet|Nadish> still too slow =)
03:17 < PeteT> I should go too. C'ya all around.
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03:19 < Ennet|Nadish> Chieftess are you beta testers allowed to comment anything on the AI btw?
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03:24 < Chieftess> not yet, unless we previewed them.
03:25 < Chieftess> CivRules did a SP game preview, so he could mention the AI in his game I think.
03:26 < Ennet|Nadish> already read it :)
03:27 < Canuck> ya...as Soren has stated in a release he modelled the AI after us MP players so it must be ok :-P
03:28 < Chieftess> Maybe for MP players. ;)
03:29 < Ennet|Nadish> sound good :)
03:29 < Canuck> MP players don't play with AI civs unless it's a dropped player :-P
03:29 < Chieftess> And yet, it could be so much more. :)
03:30 < Canuck> yes when we all have P12's running at 10GHz it might rival our real thought processes
03:30 < Ennet|Nadish> is that teasing us for what we dont know yet or implicating that the AI is far from fantastic? :)
03:30 < Chieftess> It's teasing you for what you don't know yet. 
03:31 < Ennet|Nadish> evil :P
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03:32 < Ennet|Nadish> I hope it's not possible to just take out the AI civs one at a time until the very last of them all.
03:32 < quantum_mechani> so, anyone know how impossible internet MP with an under 56k connection would be?
03:33 < Ennet|Nadish> you could always play a civ2 mp game with me ;)
03:33 < Chieftess> Well, since I've done a MP preview, I can say that I've seen games with 56k modems
03:33 < quantum_mechani> well, my connection is more like 36k
03:34 < Alva> Hey, Soren as here?? Dammit, that'll tech me doing some actual work. :( :D
03:35 < Ennet|Nadish> *comforts*
03:35 < quantum_mechani> civ3 MP ran not so good, but the version I tried of that was so buggy I could not tell if my connection was what was messing it up ;)
03:35 < Ennet|Nadish> for missing him
03:35 < Chieftess> PTW was broken from the start.
03:35 < Alva> ah wel, 'nother time..
03:36 < Ennet|Nadish> i was asking for the official poly chat next week
03:36 < Alva> I remember the gamespy rooms when PTW came out :scared:
03:36 < Ennet|Nadish> so chances are that he'll show up there :)
03:36 < Alva> Did nothing but point people to the patch on Ply or CFC :D
03:36 < Ennet|Nadish> he was asking*
03:36 < Alva> Yeah, I saw. :b:
03:39 < Alva> Reading the forums I keep being amazed how some people take a game so seriously..
03:39 < Chieftess> Now that's sad when the programmer has to tell everyone to get his latest patch.
03:39 < Alva> hehe
03:40 < Alva> Trip still isn't allowed to drink? How old is he then?
03:41 < Alva> Or should we say JonS ;)
03:41 < Ennet|Nadish> <Alva> Reading the forums I keep being amazed how some people take a game so seriously..<-something about civs or religions? :P
03:42 < Chieftess> he's 20
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03:42 < Alva> Some people take it a little too far, that's all
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03:42 < Chieftess> Unless he turned 21
03:42 < Chieftess> I just hope Curt Sibling doesn't let loose...
03:42 < Alva> 20!! and no drinking for him?? Pfff...barbarians * shakes head *
03:42 < Chieftess> you need to be 21 here. :)
03:42 < Alva> Or Aussie_lurker
03:42 < Alva> Tsssk tssk tsssk
03:43 < Ennet|Nadish> Where do you live Chieftess? =)
03:43 < Ennet|Nadish> it's 20 here
03:43 < Chieftess> Baltimore
03:43 < Alva> Way too late 
03:43 < Alva> 8 here :D
03:43 < Chieftess> How many drunk 8 year olds do you have there?
03:43 < Ennet|Nadish> Alva you're either russian or dutch? :P
03:43 < Alva> Belgian ;)
03:43 < Ennet|Nadish> close enought ;)
03:44 < Chieftess> Belguim's close enough
03:44 < Chieftess> yeah
03:44 < Alva> @ Chief: not enough
03:44 < Alva> :D
03:44 < Alva> Nah, I think officially it's 16
03:44 < Alva> The fact that I don't know for sure is telling enough though ;)
03:45 < Chieftess> Baltimore - Home of Firaxis, and recent tunnel closings.
03:45 < Ennet|Nadish> Baltimore, Eastcoast somewhere?
03:45 < Chieftess> 40 miles north-east of Washington DC
03:46 < Ennet|Nadish> How far is that from NYC?
03:46 < Chieftess> 3 hours drive.
03:47 < Ennet|Nadish> ah cool, i wasn't sure, but i had a slight memory of Baltimore being somewhere around there
03:47 < Alva> You can't even drive for 3 hours in Belgium and not leave it's borders :D
03:47 < Canuck> some of us conquered PTW :P
03:47 < Canuck> and waited it out til C3C
03:48 < Ennet|Nadish> i remember a tv-serie from baltimore from long ago
03:48 < Chieftess> Homicide?
03:48 < Ennet|Nadish> about a homicide police unit
03:49 < Ennet|Nadish> yes
03:49 < Chieftess> A co-worker where I used to work at had the film crew in her neighborhood once shooting a scene
03:50 < Ennet|Nadish> cool :)
03:50 < Chieftess> It was a morning scene, so she couldn't leave for work.
03:51 < Ennet|Nadish> they were shooting out a swedish police tv-serie just across from where i used to go to school for several years
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03:53 < Ennet|Nadish> was she going by car and the car was in some footage allready or what?
03:53 < Ennet|Nadish> :)
03:54 < Ennet|Nadish> at least a nice excuse when you arrive at work, to be able to say that you're late because they were shooting out for a tv-serie at your home
03:55 -!- Ennet|Nadish is now known as Ennet|Nadish|ZzZ
03:55 < Ennet|Nadish|ZzZ> Good night :)
03:55 < Ennet|Nadish|ZzZ> 4am here, time for some sleep
03:56 < Canuck> night
03:56 < Chieftess> nah, just some street scene
03:56 < Canuck> or morning :-P
03:56 < Chieftess> I guess the street was supposed to be blocked off
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04:05 < Canuck> so...who has the beer? :-P
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05:10 < Canuck> night Civers
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09:43 <@ACS_MarkG> yo
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10:00 < Ennet|Nadish|ZzZ> hey :)
10:00 < Ennet|Nadish|ZzZ> good morning mark
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10:05 <@ACS_MarkG> hey ennet
10:05 <@ACS_MarkG> another day less for civ4
10:09 < Ennet|Nadish> yes :)
10:11 <@ACS_MarkG> are you geting civ? have you pre-ordered?
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10:12 < Ennet|Nadish> im getting civ for sure :)
10:12 < Ennet|Nadish> but i havn't pre-ordered
10:13 < Ennet|Nadish> from previous occations i've learned that at least here it seems to get faster to just walk down to the store on the day it's released
10:14 <@ACS_MarkG> here = ?
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10:14 < Merepatra> Hi
10:15 < Ennet|Nadish> North Stockholm, Sweden
10:15 <@ACS_MarkG> hey merepatra
10:15 < Merepatra> Hi Mark
10:16 < Merepatra> Was just browsing the forum reading up on Civ4 and thought I would drop in
10:16 <@ACS_MarkG> 1 sec
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10:17 <@ACS_MarkG> got ant info on when it will reach sweden ennet?
10:17 <@ACS_MarkG> merepatra, are you an often apolyton visitor?
10:17 <@ACS_MarkG> often = frequent
10:17 < Ennet|Nadish> 28th i think
10:18 < Merepatra> I stop by occasionally, I'm waiting impatiently on Civ4 like everyone else
10:18 < Ennet|Nadish> at latest
10:19 < Merepatra> Though since I'm working on a project that is meant to go gold by the end of the year I really shouldn't take time off to play it... because I can't afford to get addicted yet
10:20 <@ACS_MarkG> I hope you dont have to work on an RTS :)
10:20 < Merepatra> not this year ;)  
10:20 <@ACS_MarkG> lol
10:20 < Merepatra> Currently I'm working on a turn based "game" but its nothing like Civ, its more an educational thing
10:21 <@ACS_MarkG> why "game"?
10:21 <@ACS_MarkG> and not game :)
10:21 < Merepatra> Warpstorm is the head programmer, so he is the one I can blame for any bugs
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10:22 < Merepatra> Its not a game in the normal sense, though it is a game.  http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/game/
10:22 <@ACS_MarkG> any other apolytoners involved?
10:23 < Merepatra> No, not yet, though we are sending out emails to some likely beta testers very soon
10:23 < Merepatra> But while it can be involving and its interesting, its not fun in the sense of most games
10:24 <@ACS_MarkG> sounds interesting
10:24 < Merepatra> I guess Apolyton is getting pretty busy these days
10:25 < Merepatra> And dev chats planned?  I should come in and quiz them ;)
10:25 <@ACS_MarkG> we'll have a release party :)
10:25 < Merepatra> I'll try and make it to it
10:26 <@ACS_MarkG> if you're in need of beta testers i could drop the url of the site in the civ4 beta testers forum :)
10:26 < Merepatra> no, we only want a fairly small group so I've put together some names from our old lists
10:27 < Merepatra> I avoided beta testing Civ4 so I would have the excitement of playing it from new, so I hope you all did a good job for me ;)
10:28 < Ennet|Nadish> @Mark: We might get company in that poly chat
10:28 < Ennet|Nadish> <Soren> d'oh... there's an official Poly chat next week, right?
10:29 <@ACS_MarkG> yes Ennet we have already made an initial contact for the release party with the firaxians :)
10:29 < Ennet|Nadish> ah cool :)
10:30 < Merepatra> I expect to see Jesse there, he hates to miss a party
10:30 < Merepatra> Jesse/Travis I mean... or whatever he is calling himself these days ;)
10:31 <@ACS_MarkG> Jesse Smith?
10:31 < Merepatra> Yes, not Jesse/Friedrich, in case of confusion.. they have too many Jesse's
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10:32 <@ACS_MarkG> yeah :)
10:33 < Merepatra> I had better go, got to get some work done.  
10:33 < Merepatra> Might see you at the release party
10:33 < Ennet|Nadish> yes come around :)
10:33 < Ennet|Nadish> cheers
10:33 <@ACS_MarkG> ok, if you would like to do something about AFMP send me a mail
10:33 < Merepatra> Ok, I'll keep that in mind and mention it to Ed
10:33 <@ACS_MarkG> ok cu
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12:45 < Ennet|Nadish> :)'
12:47 <@ACS_MarkG> ?
12:49 < Ennet|Nadish> just shaking life in the channel:)
12:51 <@ACS_MarkG> ah :)
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16:04 < ulyanov> eh, all...
16:06 < Ennet|Nadish> lo :)
16:08 <@ACS_MarkG> hey
16:08 < ulyanov> you take time out of "beta" testing to chat?
16:10 < Ennet|Nadish> rather beta "testing" ;)
16:10 < ulyanov> yeahm true...
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